Westfall, Madge H (1891-1993) |
Worcester County Library: Local History and Genealogy Collection, Snow Hill Branch, Snow Hill, MD
|
Interviewee: |
Madge Hottenstein Westfall (1891-1993) with comments from daughter Jean Anderson ( - ) |
| Interviewer: |
Katherine Fisher |
| Date of interview: |
1983 November 26 |
| Length of interview: |
1 hour 20 mins |
| Transcribed by: |
Judith Jones |
| Preferred Citation: |
“Name, Oral History Collection, Date of Interview, Worcester County Library, Snow Hill Branch, Snow Hill, Maryland.” |
Topical Terms:
Church
Domestic Life
Farming
School
Transportation
Worcester County (Md.)—History
Worcester County (Md.)—Social life and customs
Worcester County (Md.)—Women’s History
Location Terms:
Snow Hill (Md.)
INTERVIEW BEGINS
INTERVIEWER: Today is Monday, November 26, and I’m at the home of Mrs. Chester Westfall, and I’m here interviewing her. What is your full name, Mrs. Westfall?
MADGE: You mean my maiden name?
INTERVIEWER: Yes, and your first name.
MADGE: Madge Kate Hottenstein Westfall.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, you were a Hottenstein?
MADGE: Sure.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
MADGE: Did you know any Hottensteins?
INTERVIEWER: I just know some people that had some apartments in Snow Hill.
MADGE: Oh, that was my brother and his wife.
INTERVIEWER: Alright. Was that Aubrey?
MADGE: Oh you know Aubrey, ah?
INTERVIEWER: I only met him once, because I hadn’t been around here.
MADGE: I see.
INTERVIEWER: When were you born, if you don’t mind me asking?
MADGE: I was born in 1891.
INTERVIEWER: You were? Oh, you are older then you look, my goodness you look young!
MADGE: (Laughter) I was born in 1891, on July 25 in North Carolina.
INTERVIEWER: You were?
MADGE: Yes, my mother was a North Carolinian.
INTERVIEWER: She was?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well what brought your parents up here?
MADGE: Well, my father went to North Carolina to teach school, and there is where he met my mother. He was originally from Pennsylvania. And of course these young fellas, (laughter) I guess they would wander around a little bit. Well, anyway, I don’t know. We lived in Pennsylvania for a while. And then I guess he, I’ll have to tell you about this, when he was teaching he developed migraine headaches. And that’s when he stopped teaching. And then we lived in PA for a while, Millbourne, PA. I don’t know how in the world we got down here. He must have seen it in a newspaper or something. (Laughter) I say it was the jumpin’ off place, because at that time they didn’t have anything.
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that something?
MADGE: They didn’t have lights. They didn’t have telephones. They didn’t have anything. They didn’t.
INTERVIEWER: And you were used to those things?
MADGE: Oh, well I don’t know because I was just a little thing when we left North Carolina. I think I was about 6 years old when we came here.
INTERVIEWER: So okay, you have been here since before the turn of the century?
MADGE: Right. Oh sure, sure.
INTERVIEWER: Goodness. where did you move here?
MADGE: What?
INTERVIEWER: Where did you live?
MADGE: Oh, we lived on a farm, right up the road here. Is that what you mean?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
MADGE: Oh yes, we lived on a farm up here, bordering on this old creek. And the, (laughter) and then we went to school in a little, a one-room schoolhouse out here on this road, right up this road here. And this field was a woods. All this field here was a woods.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my gracious!
MADGE: Oh, it was just awful. And that little schoolhouse sits on a farm just up the road here. And it even has a little chimney on it.
INTERVIEWER: Does it still?
MADGE: It does. It even has the little chimney on it. And we had to walk about a mile to school. And in those days the weather was nothing like we have now. Believe it or not, it’s the truth. We had blizzards. We had started that winter getting cold in September. That is cool. And, this creek would freeze over.
INTERVIEWER: It would?
MADGE: Oh yes, and we could skate on it. Well, it was just a lot different. And the people, people, too.
INTERVIEWER: Now, when you went to school, you went to school out here?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember some of the teachers?
MADGE: Oh yes, (laughter) I remember quite a few of the teachers. If I could just think of them. One was Miss Lyda Claybill. Miss Ruth Brimmer, and Mr. Ernest Johnston.
INTERVIEWER: Ern … ?
MADGE: Ernest Johnson.
INTERVIEWER: Ernest Johnson, okay.
MADGE: We were neighbors and he had been away to school and he taught out here, I think. In those days, I think the teachers, if they weren’t from right in the neighborhood, they would board with families during the week because the roads were so bad that they just couldn’t get back and forth. They didn’t have any way of getting back and forth other than by horse and buggy. Yes, and the kids that went to high school had to stay in Snow Hill for the week.
INTERVIEWER: Boarding with someone there?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: How long did you go in school?
MADGE: Well, I guess I must have gone about to the—In those days…
JEAN: To the 8th grade I would say.
MADGE: Oh no, it was more than that Jean.
JEAN: It was more than that?
MADGE: Oh yes. They taught us quite a few things in there. They taught us quite a few things. I think I was about 16 or about 17 when I stopped.
INTERVIEWER: That’s when you finished school?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, where was the nearest church? Right in the area?
MADGE: It was. How (far) would you say Nassawango is from here?
JEAN: I would say it’s about 2 miles. You just go up and cross the little bridge and go around, right there …
MADGE: Have you been in that neighborhood?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
MADGE: Well, *unintelligible conversation*. Near the cemetery. Well, my home was just a big old farmhouse up here, was about a quarter of a mile, you go by it when you take the back road. We kids would walk out there to church every Sunday morning. I say in those days, you didn’t have anywhere else to go so you went to church, and Sunday school.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, was it a Methodist Church?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember any of the ministers who were there?
MADGE: Oh yes. Mr. Donovan. Mr. Avery Donovan. Mr. um, um … oh I can’t remember too many of them.
INTERVIEWER: That’s okay.
MADGE: Well, offhand I can’t remember too many of them. It used to be connected with Bates here in town. They were, what did they call it? The preacher there at Bates would also preach here.
INTERVIEWER: Well, you wouldn’t have preaching every Sunday, or would you?
MADGE: No, I don’t think we did, but we had Sunday School every Sunday. And then every so often they we would have revivals.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, they would?
MADGE: Oh gracious yes.
INTERVIEWER: Well, what was that like?
MADGE: Well, it was at night. They were at night. They were for getting new members. Getting you up to, getting you up to…well, I guess, I forget, I don’t know how to put it. I’m kind of forgetful now.
JEAN: You mean commit yourself to the church?
MADGE: That’s right. As a member. *unintelligible speech*
INTERVIEWER: Now, at this revival, if it was at night, would you have a way to light the area?
MADGE: Well, all they had was lights on, kind of, not chandeliers, but these things to the wall. These little single lights, single oil lamps. A bracket they would have…and would generally have them in the fall. And they would have wood stoves on each side of the church, and the pews in the center aisle up to the pulpit. But they just have one stove, heated it with wood.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well, when you were growing up on the farm, what were some of the chores you had to do?
MADGE: I would hate to tell ya (laughter). We did everything. We helped, we would help, well, not all the girls, but I guess I was more a boy than a girl. I would help gather the corn and work in the fields, things like that. Of course we had beautiful corn, nothing like now, it was just different.
JEAN: You would put the team up too, didn’t ya?
MADGE: Oh yeah, I would go out and hitch up the horse.
INTERVIEWER: Would you really?
MADGE: Yes, I would also trim the horse’s hooves. I loved horses.
INTERVIEWER: You did? Oh gracious.
MADGE: Yes, I was always out messing around with the horses. Lots of times my father would say, “Maggie, would you hitch up my horse to the old buggy?” If he wanted to go to town or something like that. And then I would braid up its tail, if it was wintertime, because it gets muddy and all. And lots of times, I would wash it. In those days, they would wash them and braid their tails and put them up so they wouldn’t get down in the mud. Horse’s tails were long and they also had long manes, but now they are all trimmed and everything.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, I didn’t know about that.
MADGE: That’s the way it was. There was an old harness hanging up there in the old barn until just a few years ago.
INTERVIEWER: Well, now did they use the horses to clear new land, or how was that done?
MADGE: Well, now that was quite a chore (laughter), to clear the land. They cleared quite a few. My father cleared several fields, too. And we kids use to get out. There were eight kids.
INTERVIEWER: Eight of you?
MADGE: Yes, the younger ones didn’t do so much. But we would all go out. We would have to pick up these roots. Everything had to be done by people. People did it. We didn’t have implements, and all such as that.
INTERVIEWER: How would he go about clearing a field?
MADGE: Well, the neighbors would come in and help a neighbor cut some bushes and things. They call them bush cuts. And in those days, and the women, when they had a bush cut, would get a nice meal. And they would have the meal in the evening, or whenever, and they would come in and help, they would. (unintelligible) And everything was your power.
INTERVIEWER: Well they couldn’t clear much land in a year could they?
MADGE: Well, they cleared it more than you would think.
INTERVIEWER: Really?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: How much?
MADGE: I don’t know how much. How many would you say they cleared on the farm, Jean?
JEAN: I think there are about 64 acres. Or, kilometers or something like that.
MADGE: And then they had ditches and things that ran across (unintelligible) because we had so much rain, even in the fall and winter.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my.
MADGE: Yes, we had lots of rain, but of course now they have closed up lots of those drainage ditches that ran through the farm. Uh-huh.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well what about in the fall of the year? Did you all kill hogs?
MADGE: Oh sure. Sure.
INTERVIEWER: What was a hog killing like? I’ve never been to one, and I’m sure I don’t want to go.
JEAN: I went once and that was enough for me.
MADGE: Well, here at the farm?
JEAN: Yes, I had to pick out lard and I’ll never forget the feel of that heated fat in my hand. Well, will you go on and tell her about how it was when you did it?
MADGE: Well, hog killing day starts about, starts about 4 in the morning, and we would go out and get the big hog killing pot. Do you know (unintelligible). You’ll have to show her the big hog killing pots. They had two in their house they put wood in. Well you would go out and put your water into the pot. You’d have to start your fire so you would have your water boiling and hot. And then they would sink a barrel, a great big wooden barrel at an angle into the ground. It was lying on its side just high enough to hold the water. And when that was around 7 o’clock, or maybe before, it was ready for the hogs to be killed. Any they would take and pull this hog, and kill it, of course, cut its throat, bleed it, and then they would take a thing. I’ve forgotten what they call those, a hook that goes in the mouth, and they would pull that hog in and out of this barrel after they put in the water. And the water has to be a certain temperature for scalding. They called it a scalding barrel.
JEAN: It was called a scalding barrel.
MADGE: It was a regular big wooden barrel.
INTERVIEWER: Right, and then what would they do?
MADGE: Well then they would take the hair off it.
INTERVIEWER: Did they save the hair?
MADGE: No. Or at least they didn’t then, save it then.
JEAN: When did they hang it, Mother? Did they take the hair off first? And then hang it?
MADGE: Well of course, they would take every bit of the hair off. They would pull this hog out, and then they (unintelligible) down in the dirt, and then they would roll it over and use scrapers. These scrapers. Did you ever see a hog scraper?
INTERVIEWER: No.
MADGE: These scrapers, they’re about that big with a handle about that long. And they are just like a lid with a small edge. And then they would scrape and scrape and scrape and then every bit of the hair is off. It’s perfectly clean. And then when they get that done, they hang them on a tree.
JEAN: A wooden tripod.
MADGE: Tripod. They put a thing between the hind legs and hang the hog so it doesn’t touch the ground. And, and then they do all the hogs before they take the entrails out.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! So they would have more than one hog hanging?
MADGE: Oh yes (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Now, would your dad actually do the butchering, or would somebody come around to do it?
MADGE: (Unintelligible) Maybe some person that kind of did a lot of it and come in and do the intricate parts of it. Taking out the intestines and all of that.
INTERVIEWER: Alright, what did you do?
JEAN: Did you clean intestines?
MADGE: What?
JEAN: Did you clean intestines?
MADGE: Yes, I have cleaned the intestines. You know that’s what they stuff the sausage in. They are just like tissue paper. You can see through it. It’s quite a chore, too. I didn’t do it at that time. It was after I was married. (Unintelligible) a hog killing but that’s the way they do it. And now I think they have artificial (unintelligible) I don’t know.
INTERVIEWER: Mom, tell her about the lard.
MADGE: Oh, the lard. Well, had to separate the lean from the lard, from the fat. And then they had (unintelligible) tables and boards on some benches. About that high from the ground and you just sit around there or just stand up there and cut the fat into little squares. The fat and take the lean out and put that into the sausage (unintelligible). And they put that in this, when they get enough, they put in big kettle crocks and It has to be boiled to a certain ... I never did it, I couldn’t, but some of the men did it. And then they boil it to a certain point, otherwise it wouldn’t save. And then they would put it in, what they would call a sausage stuffer. You’ve seen them? Well, they also have a plate in that stuffer and that they would put on the top, that has holes in it and squeezed the lard out of it so they could press (unintelligible) and they have a long spout. No, they don’t either. They just tie a bag over, out of the stuffer that catches the lard and strains it into the pan. (Unintelligible)
JEAN: It was about a five-gallon tin can, wasn’t it?
MADGE: Yes, tin can, that’s what they keep it in.
JEAN: That’s what lard is stored in.
INTERVIEWER: Alright. Now, how long would that keep?
MADGE: Well, it would keep all summer. We generally killed in the winter, of course.
INTERVIEWER: You would have enough to get you through (unintelligible)?
MADGE: It would make wonderful pie crust. You can’t get it much now, but it just made wonderful pie crust. They used it for different things around cooking and frying and things. Fried chicken.
INTERVIEWER: Well, would you have to keep it cold, or just?
MADGE: No, we just would keep it out in the smoke house.
INTERVIEWER: Out there? You had a smoke house.
MADGE: Oh sure.
INTERVIEWER: You did?
MADGE: Yes, when they stuffed the sausage they had little poles around, they would just lay it and string the sausage over and later on when they had the hams and shoulders they didn’t do so much, they didn’t use the sausage and meat like bacon so much. They used it for seasoning vegetables when they cooked. And they would smoke it with hickory, supposed to be with hickory. Did they use those cobs for that at all?
JEAN: I really don’t know, but I know they used hickory. (Unintelligible) But I think they used some cobs.
MADGE: I swear the Martins, there towards the end, they had hams, I think they were 25 or 30 lbs. These wonderful home-cured hams. Ham.
JEAN: It was a flavor you never taste anymore. I haven’t tasted that flavor in years. It was absolutely marvelous.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, that must have been.
JEAN: Oh, they were good. And Aunt Bert knew how to do it.
INTERVIEWER: Well, the neighbors got together, then they helped clear land and helped at hog killings, were there other things?
MADGE: (Unintelligible). Well, we just had two or three. They wouldn’t have an awful lot. Just the families, and the man in the family and some of the neighbors. And that’s the way they worked it.
INTERVIEWER: Well, what about in harvest time?
MADGE: At harvest time? Well, at harvest time, most farmers, small farmers would have enough wheat to make flour for this year. And you know the wheat has three things: It has the flour, the midlands--whatever that is--and the bran. For the bran, you’re paying for nothing but hulls off the wheat.
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that something?
MADGE: And that’s the truth. And they always (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: And now we are paying extra for it.
MADGE: You do, you do! The price, they cut the package and raised the price.
INTERVIEWER: Well, in order to take care of the wheat, would each farmer have their own thrashing machine?
MADGE: No, nope, there was a machine that would come around that had a thrasher. It was a steam thing, a good size thing, and they would come around to each home and blow the straw out and call it (unintelligible) and they would use that straw in the stables and other things like that. (Unintelligible) and around meal time they ate. My, they put some big thrashing dinners out.
INTERVIEWER: Would they really?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Well, would the neighborhood ladies come over to help?
MADGE: Yes, some neighborhood ladies would come over to help with the thrashing meals.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, that would be good. Okay, did you have much problems with insects back then?
MADGE: Did we have much trouble with insects? Oh yes, especially with mosquitos. We could go from our lane to the wood. How long was our lane, Jean?
JEAN: Oh dear, it must have been a half (unintelligible) to the woods.
MADGE: Well by the time, if you were driving in the buggy, and it had a horse to it of course, and that horse would be covered with mosquitos.
INTERVIEWER: My goodness.
MADGE: You just don’t have any idea. Oh, and the horses in those days, had what they called mosquito netting. They were put over their back end.
Telephone rings (interruption)
INTERVIEWER: Oh, well tell me about this mosquito netting on the horses.
MADGE: The mosquito netting, well they were pretty little things, they had tassels on them. The nets would go over their ears too, and they would put them on after the harness went on. Mostly these darn mosquitoes would get on the horse’s belly. Oh my lands, you have no idea what it was like with the mosquitoes those days. Well, if we wanted to sit out in the yard or anything, we had to have something they called a smother.
INTERVIEWER: A smother?
MADGE: They’d built this little thing filled with smoke that burned and sent up smoke. They generally had a thing that sent up smoke. It would send up a little smoke, fire.
INTERVIEWER: What would you put in it? Did you use old rags or wood?
MADGE: What? No, we used wood. You didn’t want it to blaze, it would just smoke.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
MADGE: Also, that’s what would happen at these church festivals. I said I was almost eaten up by mosquitoes then. Well, there was nothing they could do. At one time, they had some kind of stuff that they offered. I don’t know what they called it. (unintelligible)
JEAN: Citronella.
MADGE: Oh, Citronella.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, now you had church festivals?
MADGE: Oh yes, we had church festivals, and the ladies of the church would make cakes and they had ice cream, and lemonade and little candies and things, and the ice cream was 15 cents a dish or 10 cents, something like that. And of course, it wasn’t rich at all because it was homemade ice cream. They put it in these big five-gallon cans and freeze it. Of course, the men would take care of that, and the women would make it. Of course, we would go out through the neighborhood to places to see what ones would give the eggs, or so much milk, sugar or something, and, that way, it was a benefit thing. After the thing was closed in the evening, if there were any cakes left that the woman had brought, they would raffle them off.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well that was a good way to make some money for the church.
MADGE: Well, yes. Of course. And some cakes would bring in more money than others and some weren’t very expensive.
INTERVIEWER: Aww. Now where would they get the ice to make the ice cream.
MADGE: Oh, well you know they had to cut ice out of this river. The Pocomoke River.
INTERVIEWER: They did?
MADGE: Now I’ve heard my neighbor say, one of the older men that lived around here for years. He said he has driven a pair of horses up that river clear up to Snow Hill from down here.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my dear!
MADGE: Oh, the ice packs were that thick, and that’s the truth. We really had cold weather.
INTERVIEWER: I think so. Well would you ice skate?
MADGE: Well, I didn’t, but they did on the creek here. The people in the neighborhood.
INTERVIEWER: Right, right, okay.
MADGE: Well, I say I would never want to skate on that river. That is the most dangerous thing I ever saw. It’s so deep.
INTERVIEWER: Did you like to go out on the river? Did you go out in boats or go fishing or anything?
MADGE: Well, we used to go down to the creek and fish.
INTERVIEWER: You did?
MADGE: Yes. You didn’t just go in those days; the kids got permission to go fishing. We would tell our parents. We wouldn’t just go down there and fish. They didn’t know where we were, so we would always tell them. Instead of having these fine casts and rods and things, we would go out in the woods and cut off a nice switch for a pole, and put a piece of string and a heavy little weight and tie a hook on it and use a bottle cork and go down and fish.
INTERVIEWER: What would you catch?
MADGE: We would catch sunfish, what they called sunfish, and bitter heads. (Unintelligible) They were little small things. People wouldn’t eat them now, but we did. Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: But you did. You would take them home and your mom would cook them?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Did your mother salt fish?
MADGE: Well, in the spring they fished right here in front of the house, where they hauled (unintelligible) for shad and herring. Oh yes, it took four men to haul them in. (Unintelligible) In fact, there is one in the barn right now. They won’t let us fish there anymore. The person that owned the landing there, took four men on the landing to fish (unintelligible). Some of the neighbors who would fish there and sometimes they would come home with tubs full of herring. Then you would salt and clean. You wouldn’t do it in the evening, but we would do it the next morning, salt them. Not just us, but they would salt them down and clean them, and put them in barrels and salt them down for summer. They weren’t very good but we ate them.
INTERVIEWER: Now how would they, when you say hull the scene, they would put the net in and leave it?
MADGE: No, we would use a boat. Now down here, you got to have a boat. We had a wood boat with a back. That is, it had a back on it. The (unintelligible) they would load this boat. It was about 150 feet long, and you made a circle out into the channel from the shore. And each end had what they called a braille and it’s a piece of thing at the end of the sand. (Unintelligible) And a fella on the shore stands there and holds that braille while the others roll in a half circle around from there go down the creek a little to the bridge and into the shore. And when they get to the shore, one end, one side of the thing has corks on it the holds it up and the other bottom has legs that holds it down. And it drags when they pull it.
INTERVIEWER: Alright.
MADGE: Well, when they get in, the two that were on the boat that rode it around, start taking in this (unintelligible). It’s quite a sight.
BREAK IN TAPE
MADGE: We got lots of straw. We thought that would be good for (unintelligible). I don’t suppose everybody did this.
JEAN: How many times a year did you change your straw?
MADGE: One.
JEAN: One? Just the one?
MADGE: Well, you could change it more if you wanted to. You could go out to the rick to where the pile was and get you some good straw for the night.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, but you could do it more often?
MADGE: Yes. At the time I think they had what you call stuffed mattresses. Now they’re more solid. I don’t know if we ever had them, or I just forgot.
JEAN: Was that from the corn ear where you shoved the shuck …
MADGE: Yes. From the shuck that made a firmer mattress.
INTERVIEWER: Firmer?
MADGE: Yeah, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Now, when you were growing up, how was the house heated?
MADGE: By the wood stove.
INTERVIEWER: What about your bedrooms? Were they heated?
MADGE: Lord (laughter), in those days the houses were not insolated like they are now. All that was between you and that horrible north winds was a piece of old weather boarding, and not a thing between that and…what they called (unintelligible). It was about that wide and that thick and about that far apart. And then they would plaster and they would mix the plaster with horse hair so it wouldn’t fall apart. And they would press that on these slats and it would go between these slips (unintelligible) and that kept it from falling, especially ceilings.
INTERVIEWER: Boy, well I can’t imagine plastering the ceiling like that.
MADGE: Well they did, and every now and then, when those (unintelligible) would break (laughter) and you would have to do it all over again. Yes, lots of times you would have to plaster holes.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Well, were there people that did the plastering?
MADGE: Yup, they had men, there were certain people who did that.
INTERVIEWER: Your father didn’t have to do that?
MADGE: No, but he could. He could have. He could do anything, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that something. Well, what sort of crops did you raise? You said you had wheat?
MADGE: Well, we raised practically everything we ate.
INTERVIEWER: Did you?
MADGE: Yes, we did. We raised navy beans. Black-eyed peas. I believe we had black peas. It seems to me the water was black that they were cooked in. But I know we had black-eyed peas, and old turnips and rutabaga, cabbage and they even made sauerkraut.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, did you make sauerkraut?
MADGE: I remember them making sauerkraut at one time (unintelligible). Course, they didn’t make it regular, but they did make it. In those days, they didn’t have basements. In those days a lot of people didn’t have basements in their houses. And they had potatoes, not sweet potatoes—they are harder to keep. Oh, we raised sweet potatoes. Sweet potatoes were all we ate. We wouldn’t buy those things. And they would put a thing in the ground and they would line them with pine shats. I don’t know what you call them, but we called them pine shats.
INTERVIEWER: I call them pine shafts.
MADGE: Well, pine shats or (unintelligible) something and put your vegetable in there, and then they put another coating of pine shafts on there and then dirt. And put them in kind of a protective place, maybe along the woods or something where they would have it hidden. Where it would be so close.
INTERVIEWER: Right, and in the winter, you would dig out, right?
MADGE: When you wanted some, you would go down and dig, but you couldn’t dig more then you could use because you had to keep it in the house so it wouldn’t freeze. You couldn’t put it in an outbuilding or anything, like they do now.
INTERVIEWER: Speaking of outbuildings, you had outdoor bathrooms.
MADGE: Giggles.
INTERVIEWER: We had an old privy (laughter).
JEAN: Let’s get that in there.
MADGE: You remember the latrine?
JEAN: No, I never saw that. There was only one when I was here.
MADGE: (Laughter) There was just the one hole (laughter).
INTERVIEWER: Well, with eight children and two adults…
MADGE: Oh, you know what we also raised? Cane, so we had molasses. We raised molasses cane.
INTERVIEWER: Well, was it a special kind of cane?
MADGE: Yeah, it was (unintelligible). It must have been taller than this room and it had an arch of seed at the top. It didn’t have ears or anything like that.
INTERVIEWER: Was it like a tassel?
MADGE: Yes, something like that, and it had braids on it, you know, just like corn. Well, before you took it to the place to have it cooked, you had to take off all the leaves and cut the top off and have it ready to press the juice out of it. And one of the neighbors up there, in the neighborhood, he did the (unintelligible) made the molasses.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, who was that?
MADGE: Mr. Williams. I suspect if you know anybody around Snow Hill, some of his relatives are around here. Donoways, some of the Donoways that have some relations with Mr. Williams.
INTERVIEWER: Now, what would you put your molasses in?
MADGE: A barrel. And that’s where we got our (unintelligible). And when we kids wanted something we would make taffy.
INTERVIEWER: You did made taffy.
MADGE: Oh! Did we make taffy! That was one of our entertainments with having people and a taffy pull.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me how you did that. I’ve never done it.
MADGE: You mean the taffy?
INTERVIEWER: Yes, how did you make it?
MADGE: You made taffy, didn’t you Jean?
JEAN: Well, not much.
MADGE: Well, you put it in a big iron pan, frying pan.
INTERVIEWER: This would be the molasses.
MADGE: Yes, this would be the molasses. And you would cook it, and what else would they put in it. (unintelligible). I know you put a little vinegar in it at some time. I know you cook it to a certain point. You could always tell it was done after you made it a few times. And you would take it out and put a little soda in it, and it would get a little foamy, and then you let it set a little while and pour it into dishes and wait to cool and then you would butter up your hands and then when it would get so you could kind of handle it, you would take off a ball about that big and start pulling it. It takes two.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, and you really would pull it?
MADGE: Oh sure, we would pull it until it was about that big around and then we would take a knife and crack it into pieces.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
MADGE: And then we would have brittle taffy.
INTERVIEWER: That sounds good.
MADGE: And also we made popcorn balls that we made out of the molasses. We would make the corn and then we would cook the molasses and when it was a certain stage we would pour it over the popcorn and mold the balls and they stuck together.
INTERVIEWER: You grew your own popcorn too?
MADGE: Oh, yes, oh, yes, we raised our own popcorn. And we made our own, vinegar out of cider.
INTERVIEWER: Oh you did?
MADGE: We made our own vinegar out of cider. One of the neighbors that had a farm up here had an orchard. And my dad would pick up us kids and take us over there in the fall. Everything was by hand. And the cider press…
INTERVIEWER: By hand?
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: My, I bet that was good.
MADGE: (laughter) Should I tell her about Mr. Dennis?
JEAN: Yes.
MADGE: Mr. Dennis owned the orchard, and when my father was making cider one day, he said he drove up to the house and asked Mr. Dennis for a cup to drink some cider. So Mr. Dennis says, gave him two cups, and said now you drink with this here, and you dip with this here, and drink with this here without air.
INTERVIEWER: (Unintelligible) This here not air. (laughter)
JEAN: How about your brothers in the cider barrel?
MADGE: It wasn’t my brothers; it was my neighbors. They would take these big long pumpkin stems, and when the cider was getting hard, the vinegar, yeah the cider was getting hard and they would stick it into the hole in the top. They had a spigot in the barrel. And anyway, they would drink the cider and it got pretty hard.
INTERVIEWER: Oh my goodness. (laughter) They weren’t supposed to do that, were they?
MADGE: Well, it wasn’t objected to (unintelligible) inside the barrel (laughter). And it’s what we call a smoke house.
INTERVIEWER: And you kept it right in there?
MADGE: Yes, it was kept in there where it wouldn’t freeze.
INTERVIEWER: Well, now it didn’t freeze in the smokehouse because you had that fire going?
MADGE: Well now, to make the cider, no there wasn’t any fire in there. To make the cider, I mean the vinegar, they have what they call “mull.” They put it in this vinegar and it has something to do with the fermenting of it to make the vinegar. And I don’t think the cider freezes.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
MADGE: At least it didn’t seem to, as I remember it anyway.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Who were some of your neighbors in your area? Who were some of the people nearby?
MADGE: Well, the Johnsons and Devereauxs. Oh, did you know any of the Devereauxs?
INTERVIEWER: I know just the guy who has the Devereauxs’ store down in Snow Hill.
MADGE: Yes, that’s a relative. Yes, they lived next door to us and they were good neighbors. And then we …
JEAN: And the Maddoxes. The Maddoxes came.
MADGE: Oh, the Maddoxes and the Johnsons and down here on the river were the Potters and Richardsons. The Maddoxes built this house right up here. (All speaking—unintelligible) Which one, where the Adkinses lived?
MADGE: Yeah, I remember I was about 16 when that house was built.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my goodness. With the orchards here, would your mother dry apples?
MADGE: Yes, that was another entertainment young folks had, it was called an apple peeling. They would get in bushels of apples, and of course they had to be washed and everything and we would just horse around and visit and talk and peel apples. Peel and core, and cut apples into little slices to be dried on the roof.
INTERVIEWER: On the roof?
MADGE: On the roof. They would put them on what they called trays, wood trays; and on sunshiny days they were sun dried and they would cut these apples in little, after they were peeled and cored and cut into little pieces, and they would put them on these trays and of course, then they would take them in. I think they would take them in before night but they were sundried. You could just put them into a bag. And then when you got ready to eat them, you would put water on them and they would swell up. Have you ever eaten dried apples?
INTERVIEWER: Yes, I have some in the refrigerator right now.
MADGE: Oh you have? I know they were dried (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: During the summertime, did you go swimming much?
MADGE: Well, I didn’t learn to swim.
INTERVIEWER: Well, did you go out bathing?
MADGE: (Unintelligible) I guess I didn’t get around there and we weren’t allowed to go unless there was somebody around that could swim.
JEAN: Didn’t you go in the ditch, Mama?
MADGE: Oh yes, well we didn’t swim, but we just went in after a big rain (laughter). We would go in this ditch, the was kind of a place that we would go and fool around. But that was just for a few days until the water ran off.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, that would be that. What sort of discipline would they have used in school?
MADGE: Well, if we would want to go out to the back house, we would say, we would hold up our hand and say may I be excused. And we would go out or if we would want to leave our desk. We never talked to one another out loud.
INTERVIEWER: You didn’t?
MADGE: No sir, we would ask if I may speak to so and so if you wanted to talk and then you whispered.
INTERVIEWER: My goodness.
MADGE: Well, they had discipline.
JEAN: Well, discipline wasn’t a problem was there?
MADGE: Not at all, not at all. We had our old pitcher pump out back and a bucket of water in the morning. And they had either a dipper or a tin cup that everybody used.
INTERVIEWER: Same thing?
MADGE: Same thing. They didn’t have cups and things like they do now.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. There weren’t children that misbehaved.
MADGE: No, no. never ever. Never would you see a child argue with a teacher, ever!
INTERVIEWER: Well that’s changed. How often would your dad go to town?
MADGE: Well, we didn’t have much to go to town for. Not too often because it was a thing to go to town, especially in the winter the roads were terrible. Dirt roads, nothing but dirt roads, and these muddy wheels would cut in and sometimes would go in that deep.
INTERVIEWER: Oh my goodness. Was this bridge here?
MADGE: Yes, that bridge was here, but you know the funny part? They call this the New Bridge. Have you ever been over, well, that one, they call the Old Bridge? Now the neighbor I was telling you about lived up here, the Richardsons, Mr. Richardson said he remembered when this bridge wasn’t here. Now he died a few years ago, he died some years ago, and he said he remembered—they owned this property out here, and this bridge wasn’t here and that’s the reason they called it. I don’t know if there is anybody living now that recalls it.
INTERVIEWER: But when you went to town you went down Red House Road?
MADGE: No, when we were here this bridge was here.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, well what would you do when one of you got sick?
MADGE: They just, I can count on my one hand when the doctor was ever in the house. You know they made calls to the family. I can remember twice the doctor was there for one of us kids. That’s a fact and we would have the worst sore throats. I tell ya if they had us now we would be in isolation.
INTERVIEWER: Well, isn’t that something? Well what would you do?
MADGE: Well, they gave us, kind of, they rubbed our throats with turpentine and lard and they wrapped a tie around it. Land, I can remember I had the worst sore throat. They were bright white inside. I say it’s a fact, they ould have you in isolation.
INTERVIEWER: Well, what else besides turpentine and lard would they use.
MADGE: Well maybe some, well dad had what they called stick licorice. Do you know anything about that? Well, he would crack off a little piece of that and before we go to bed in the evening, he would give us a little. Horrible stuff. To hold in our mouth and you would generally need to cough a little, old dry cough.
JEAN: Did he use brandy or sugar on children?
MADGE: Oh yes, and we had some peach brandy, and we kids hated it but they would make us take a little bit of that stuff. Oh, and peppermint. The essence of peppermint and sugar.
INTERVIEWER: It would help your cough?
MADGE: Sure.
INTERVIEWER: Well, did your mother ever make mustard plaster?
MADGE: Seems to me that we would have to, but we just didn’t have a reason for it. It seems to me I would remember if we did.
INTERVIEWER: In the spring, did you take any tonics, or anything like that?
MADGE: Well, we drank some sassafras tea.
INTERVIEWER: Did you?
MADGE: Oh sure.
INTERVIEWER: I was going to say did you go out and dig the roots?
MADGE: Yup, yup, it hasn’t been long. We had some up here at the farm until they got to saying they cause cancer.
INTERVIEWER: I know.
MADGE: But I don’t believe it because people use to drink that all the time.
INTERVIEWER: Right.
MADGE: Did you ever drink it?
INTERVIEWER: I have, my mother loved it, and I don’t like it that much.
MADGE: Well I haven’t had any in quite a while. I guess I could go out here and dig a root, if you wanted to have some. If you wanted to make it, in the spring’s about the time it’s putting out leaves, you know.
INTERVIEWER: Now, in the spring and the summer what sorts of foods did you eat? They were in season.
MADGE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, when would you eat chicken?
MADGE: Well, you wouldn’t eat chicken like they do now. The chicken tasted better, too. It was developed. It was wonderful, wasn’t it Jean? Aunt Bert’s chicken was out of this world. Her fried chicken.
INTERVIEWER: Well, would you have that all year round?
MADGE: No, in the spring. We didn’t get little chicks until the old hen got broody. Oh, she would get fat, and then they would put 15 eggs under her. They put 15 eggs under her and then she sat for 21 days for them to hatch and then you had to wait until those chicks grew up to get your fried chicken or something. Course you could have a hen anytime, but that would be stew.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, did you eat a lot of beef?
MADGE: Beef, ha! Don’t talk about beef. Beef was laughter, when somebody killed an old wore out milk cow, they come through the neighborhood. They wouldn’t allow it now. They wouldn’t allow them to bring that stuff in here. They would come through the neighborhood and sell it. Well, I don’t know, I don’t remember but I know they did that. I guess once in a while they did, but they had very little beef. You couldn’t go to the store and get it. And, even bread.
INTERVIEWER: You made your own?
MADGE: You had to make your own. Unless you ordered it. I think you could get it.
INTERVIEWER: When did you learn to cook? Presuming that you did learn to cook?
MADGE: I did more cooking after I went into training.
INTERVIEWER: You did?
MADGE: Yes, we were in the diet kitchen. I don’t know whether we were there for two or three months and we had to do the cooking. And we had a matron, she took, we would plan meals. And we would cook for the private patients, not the ward patients, and some of these trays that we put meals on.
INTERVIEWER: Where were you in training?
MADGE: Up in West Chester, Pennsylvania.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, you did this after you finished high school?
MADGE: Oh yes, I was, I was. That’s the first time I ever left the farm. I was 21 at the time. They didn’t take them so young like they do now.
JEAN: Tell her where you had been before you were 21.
MADGE: Oh, I hadn’t been anywhere.
JEAN: Not even to Salisbury or Pocomoke or any place.
INTERVIEWER: You’re kidding!
MADGE: Well, you couldn’t go to those places unless you went with a horse and buggy, and it took a day to go anywhere. And to go to Salisbury, you had to go by wagon through the forest. There is just an old dirt road up here but of course that was more kept up than these roads. Yes, it would take a day.
INTERVIEWER: Did you ever go to Public Landing?
MADGE: Oh yes, we went to Public Landing, I think we went there at least once a year down on Farmers Day. (laughter) That was a big day. The kids would get up in the morning and start looking at the sun to see if it was going to rain that day. You would see how many clouds were around the sun. They would put a bunch of straw on the wagon and hitch the two horses to it. Oh, and that was a day. We would have a large (unintelligible) and all, and then we would go and we would pick bathing suits. They had a place down there that you could change. They called it a bath house that you could change your clothes in. When we came out of that bath house, all you could see was our face and our hands, and that was naked! (Chuckle)
INTERVIEWER: Aww. The rest was covered?
MADGE: The rest was covered.
INTERVIEWER: You were going into the water?
MADGE: We were going into the water.
INTERVIEWER: Oh my goodness, isn’t that something.
MADGE: (Laughter) Nowadays, everything is gone (laughter).
INTERVIEWER: Just about, oh my goodness. What about the horses?
MADGE: They would take the horses and tie them to the wheel for the day, and they would take feed, they had a little horse feed for them. Horse feed.
INTERVIEWER: Well, would they take the horses into the water?
MADGE: No, they didn’t have that big pavilion like they have now. They had something, everybody would take a nice big (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Well you got to see people there that you didn’t see most of the year.
MADGE: No, we had people. The neighbors use to call on one another. They would visit in the evening.
INTERVIEWER: Would they really?
MADGE: Oh sure, they didn’t just sit at home. The neighbors were very friendly. When anyone was sick they would call on the family and things like that. Am I talking you to death?
INTERVIEWER: No you are not. I’m just having trouble keeping up so I can remember all these things.
MADGE: If I knew how to put a book together, I could write a book.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, you certainly could. Now you were going to tell me something about kindling.
MADGE: Oh, the kindling is made from the pine stump. If you cut a pine tree, maybe a pine tree this big, the pine tree has something they call a capped root that goes straight down. And a few, not (unintelligible) like a lot of stuff. After you cut the tree and you leave that root in the ground, it starts disintegrating on the edges. Finally, that center from that little rotten stuff off, why it is rich wood. And we call that kindling wood. You can use it for starting fires. Lighter wood. I guess it has a lot of turpentine in it. And we always had one of those stumps there that’s maybe that long, the root, it is the root, in the ground. And they always kept one on the woodpile, so in the evening, or in everyday, we were supposed to leave a little bunch of kindling wood to start the fire, especially for the wood stove. Isn’t it terrible when you think of cooking on a wood stove?
INTERVIEWER: Yes, I just can’t imagine that.
MADGE: Yes, I can’t imagine it now, but anyway we had it to start the fire wherever it needed to be. (unintelligible)
JEAN: LL Bean sells it as stack wood, in bundles, it’s the same stuff.
MADGE: And then we would go cut off some little pieces like they were splinters to get the fire started.
JEAN: Mom, she would like to know how grandpap made the cypress shingles.
MADGE: What?
JEAN: Shingles.
MADGE: I can remember when we went down to the (unintelligible). They made them from cypress. Did you see this great big cypress tree out here about this big around? It’s a messy tree, but it’s a beautiful tree in the summer. Well anyway, he would take us kids down there. He had made some kind of machine that he could sit on so he could shave them. And then he would saw the pieces just as this long. And he would cut everything with a crosscut saw by hand. There was a person at each end. (unintelligible) He would split these pieces with the saw and then sit on this thing he made (unintelligible) and he made those shingles for some of the houses and some of the farm buildings.
INTERVIEWER: Well that’s really a talent.
MADGE: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Well, now how many brothers and sisters did you have?
MADGE: I had five brothers and two sisters.
INTERVIEWER: Did all of you survive through childhood?
MADGE: Oh yeah.
INTERVIEWER: You did? Because often in families, little ones died.
MADGE: Oh sure they did.
JEAN: She’s the last of the eight. As you know, Uncle Aubrey died in August.
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
MADGE: That Uncle Aubrey could do anything. He was wonderful, he was a perfectionist with anything he tried to do.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, well so now …
TAPE SKIPS
MADGE: I think the first winter we went there we had a fireplace that we used some and the chimney, the chimney was straight up. It had two chimneys; one for the kitchen and one for the living room. And up in the attic they came together and made one chimney. And every now and then it blocks; it wasn’t anything like it is now. It’s a wonder that more than one house didn’t burn down. Well when they burned out the chimney in the fall, the Martins would build in the chimney in the summer, and Pop would take a piece of, or a handful of hay or something and stick it up the chimney and set it on fire. Well you had to be up there with your bucket of water. You could see up in the attic the light of the flames. Yeah. The house didn’t burn because we were careful.
INTERVIEWER: And you know what you were doing and being careful.
MADGE: Exactly.
INTERVIEWER: Oh my dear, that’s amazing.
INTERVIEWER: “NOW WE ARE RECORDING EVERYTHING WE SAY ON THIS TAPE BECAUSE WE ARE ERASING SOMETHING. WE ARE IN THE PROCESSESS OF ERASING TO RERECORD. WHAT’S YOUR NAME? I’LL NEVER TELL. WHAT WAS YOUR NAME? (LAUGHTER) SUDDEN QUIET HAS DECENDED OVER THE ROOM. SOMEONE LISTENING TO THIS WILL FIND THIS AMUSING IN THE FUTURE. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) NO THE WATERGATE. AND THEN WE GOT MR. BLACKMAN.” TAPING OF MRS. WESTFALL CONTINUES.
JEAN: I wanted you to tell her about Mr. Blackman at the ladies meeting.
MADGE: Oh, he lived right up here, right up the road in this bungalow. It wasn’t a bungalow it was a house and that was years ago when I was just a kid. And he, Mr. Blackman wanted to go to Florida. The two of them, she was kind of crippled. They were nice, but Mr. Blackman liked his drink quite a bit. He had a beard and we kids were scared to death of him, but he wouldn’t hurt you at all. So, when they had their sale, why Mr. Blackman had been drinking. This was before he went to Florida. Some of the neighborhood women were sitting there and Mr. Blackman, like I say had a few drinks and he says, “Ladies don’t view me with a critic’s eye, but pass my imperfections by.” And Miss Maddox says, “Well Mr. Blackman, that’s what we have been doing, looking at your good pint.” Don’t mention any names in there. “and passing your bad ones by. (laughter) Now that’s a fact, it wasn’t made up. Yes, he went to Tallahassee (unintelligible). Any they had a cat they called (unintelligible) and of course, we would get the cat, we kids would get the cat. (unintelligible) No, he wouldn’t hurt a flea but … kids were shy in those days. They aren’t like that they are now.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember when your father got his first car?
MADGE: No, I wasn’t even home when he got his first car. I was away, when he got his first Ford.
INTERVIEWER: Okay, okay. How did young people get together?
MADGE: Well, we would just meet at different houses and we used to have square dances.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, you did?
MADGE: Oh Lord yes, we had several square dances all over the place.
INTERVIEWER: Well, there would be different families to provide the music?
MADGE: Oh sure, (unintelligible). I remember when we went to the Ames, not Ames, Emery. At the family home.
INTERVIEWER: Okay and you would have them there?
MADGE: Yes, and I remember being at one there, too. We played a game. Sometimes we would play kissing games.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my. Now where did you meet your husband?
MADGE: Oh, well, I met him in San Antonio, TX.?
INTERVIEWER: A lot happened between here and San Antonio.
JEAN: Well, she left here…Mom when did you leave here, 1913 or 1912? You left home in 1912 didn’t you? She never came back to live, just to visit.
MADGE: I left home in 1912. I was in training for three years and then my friend and I, Miss Grant, we decided to go to Florida after I graduated. It was down in Orlando. It was kind of, at that time, it was kind of backwards you know down there, and I was at McClendon Hospital down there, and when I wasn’t at the hospital I was out on a private case. Now in those days a private nurse made $25 a week.
INTERVIEWER: Oh my, well was that a lot or a little?
MADGE: It was a little. It was a lot for the person that you were taking care of.
INTERVIEWER: Right, but it wasn’t much?
MADGE: Well, I should say not. Kids get more than that cutting grass, I think.
JEAN: Then she went into the Army Nurse Corps, although they didn’t have rank then. She went and trained at Walter Reed.
MADGE: I put my application in for the Army Nurse Corps and I was sent to Walter Reed. I stayed at Walter Reed, for I guess we were there, there was a bunch of us there, for about several months. We worked in the hospital there and then we were sent down to San Antonio.
INTERVIEWER: Now was this during World War I?
MADGE: This was when they had trouble on the border with Pancho Villa, the Mexican, and they called the National Guard out for him and the National Guard was from New York and different places. And that’s where I met Pa. He was down with the National Guard from New York. From Rochester.
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that something.
MADGE: Yeah, and when we were going on duty that morning, the head nurse and I, we were just in the medical hospital. I can’t say it, but anyway there was this awful-looking man with a beard lying there waiting to be admitted. There was an admittance place outside. And I said to Miss Kline, the nurse on that ward, I says I hope we don’t get that man on our ward, and my gosh he did come. When he got shaved he looked a little better. He said he had to come up from (unintelligible) Texas in a boxcar. With his leg in a ... he had a broken leg.
INTERVIEWER: Oh my dear, poor thing.
MADGE: He was in the cavalry and they were on maneuvers and the horse next to his horse kicked and hit his leg and broke it.
INTERVIEWER: Oh my dear. Well, what got you back here when you finally came back.
MADGE: Well, we had been in the Army for about 30 years. We spent four years in Hawaii, two years in Puerto Rico, and other places.
INTERVIEWER: That’s just fascinating, isn’t it?
JEAN: Well, they always had their eye on property around here. This was home to you. This was always where we came to. Wasn’t that right?
INTERVIEWER: So this was the right place to come to?
MADGE: At the time, Mr. West, Mr. Will West was here. Did you know any of the Wests?
INTERVIEWER: I know some of them.
MADGE: Well, of course Mr. Will died, but when he was alive, he used to live up here in this house.
JEAN: Mr. Adkins’ house.
MADGE: (Unintelligible) And Pop was looking for a place to build so we wanted to get some property. And my father said, “Well why don’t you ask Mr. West if he wants to sell this place down here?” And he did.
INTERVIEWER: Oh that’s just perfect.
MADGE: And then we did. That’s it.
INTERVIEWER: Now is there anything else you can think of? I think that’s it. I got a Rawleigh down?
JEAN: Oh he was just another person that came through to supply them with things that they needed. Like he brought all of the spices and the seasonings.
MADGE: Oh yeah.
JEAN: And then a little bit later, they did get things from traveling salesmen.
MADGE: You mean the Rawleigh man?
JEAN: The Rawleigh man. And that was the name of the product. The Rawleigh product.
INTERVIEWER: Did your mother sew your clothes?
MADGE: My mother wasn’t so very well. She died young. I think she was about 56.
JEAN: You were down on the border when she died, weren’t you?
MADGE: Yes, I was down on the border and I had to come home and my Lord, I can remember all they had here was a livery stable owned by Chuck Brittingham. Did you know Chuck Brittingham? Anyway, he had the livery stable. He brought me out from the station and Lord, I think we drove out in a (unintelligible) sack, with a horse and buggy coming out. It was in January.
JEAN: Didn’t Lyda’s mother make clothes for you girls, once in a while?
MADGE: Oh, another thing we use to do a lot was piece carpet rags. Did you use to do that?
INTERVIEWER: No.
MADGE: Well, years ago they would take pieces of old gingham, and, oh, cotton dresses, and cut them in strips. The good parts of them, and roll them in balls. And one of our neighbors, the people who built the house up here, but they weren’t living here then (unintelligible). Well, she had a big loom and she used to make what they called rag carpet. It was about this wide and then you could make it as long as you wanted. (unintelligible) Loom and she would take these carpet rags, these balls she had and make carpet for the floor. Yes, I can see her yet.
INTERVIEWER: Well, did you all hook rugs?
MADGE: What?
JEAN: Hooking rugs.
MADGE: Well, not at that time. We didn’t know anything about it then but well, there is some of my hooked rugs. There’s two there.
INTERVIEWER: But that came later (unintelligible).
JEAN: But your mother didn’t have any hooked rugs.
MADGE: No, they used to maybe braid things or something like that. The braid rugs but I say when they were worn out, they wore out. There weren’t so many good places in them.
JEAN: Did Miss Maddox ever make you any dresses?
MADGE: Oh yes, Miss Maddox use to make some. I think one of my aunts had given me a piece of material. I remember it as well as it were yesterday. Mrs. Maddox would make them with the revere for years.
JEAN: What’s a revere?
MADGE: It was kind of a little extra piece that turned back.
INTERVIEWER: Like a lapel?
MADGE: Yes, like a lapel. Yes, I’ll always remember that dress. We had wonderful neighbors, all through the neighborhood.
JEAN: This Maddox family had three daughters, and Mrs. Lyda who was a couple years older than Mama.
MADGE: She was our school teacher.
JEAN: She was a school teacher, but Lyda told me, she died about three years ago, when that Maddox family moved into the neighborhood they were so thrilled because they just longed to have someone they can fool with and play with and she said you couldn’t even see those little kids heads above the weeds, it was so rugged. It’s where Peggy and Doug Westfall live. If you know them. It was were the old farm place, where the house was, the old house burned and that’s where Mom was raised right down just a mile or three quarters of a mile by (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: And the Cuber (?) house was there at that time? Was it really?
JEAN: Yes, now, Mom, the Johnsons were there in the Cuber house.
MADGE: Mr. Johnson, Mr. Ben Johnson were there. They had five boys. They’re the ones that drank the cider out of the barrel. Those boys!
INTERVIEWER: Now, where Janice Ward is, is that a newer house?
MADGE: The what?
JEAN: Where Janice lives, where Raymond Clark lived. Who lived there before Raymond Clark did?
MADGE: I think Raymond built that house.
JEAN: Oh, he built it.
MADGE: I think that Raymond built the house. But Gus’s house was there. Gus’s house and our old house were exactly the same style. The one that burned.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, the one that burned?
MADGE: Yes. Well they’ve done a lot of work in the house that Gus was in. The people who lived there have improved it. And there’s where the Maddoxes live, before they built this house up here.
JEAN: Did you ever read the article on the old school that Miss Lottie wrote?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
JEAN: I found that, but I figured that you probably read it. But that was very true. It was right on the end of the field there.
MADGE: I’ll tell you one thing, that when we went to school we had to learn, memorize all these little verses. Things in our speller or reading book, and everything, but there is one that always stuck with me that had to stay in all one recess to learn. It was trip ideal with trouble, trip ideal with wrong, you only make them double by dwelling on them long. Trip ideal with sorrow, days may be dark, the sun comes out tomorrow and sing the lark. I sat in one whole recess thinking I knew that, and when I’d gone up there, I couldn’t say a thing. It was in my spelling book.
INTERVIEWER: But you know it now.
MADGE: Oh sure. Then I had to memorize. We had to memorize a lot of those short things.
INTERVIEWER: Well, I can’t think of anything else, I know there are more things.
JEAN: Well, Mom, there has been so much publicity on the Furnace, but Mom just doesn’t remember the Furnace area.
MADGE: (Unintelligible) at the Furnace they had a picnic up there but the Furnace, where they had that picnic was on this road, the dirt road when you drive in there. Do you know the Warrens?
END OF INTERVIEW