Strickland, Clarence W (1890-1984) |
Worcester County Library: Local History and Genealogy Collection, Snow Hill Branch, Snow Hill, MD
|
Interviewee: |
Clarence W. Strickland (1890-1984) |
| Interviewer: |
Katherine P. Fisher |
| Date of interview: |
1981 May 12 |
| Length of interview: |
1 hour |
| Transcribed by: |
Michelle Ernat |
| Preferred Citation: |
“Name, Oral History Collection, Date of Interview, Worcester County Library, Snow Hill Branch, Snow Hill, Maryland.” |
Topical Terms:
School
Transportation
Worcester County (Md.)—History
Worcester County (Md.)—Social life and customs
Location Terms:
Klej Grange (Md.)
Snow Hill (Md.)
Interview Begin
INTERVIEWER: Today is May 12th, 1981 and I’m interviewing Mr. Clarence Strickland. Do you have a middle initial? What does it stand for?
CLARENCE: W. It stands for William.
INTERVIEWER: Clarence William Strickland, who is a resident of Snow Hill now, and he was born November 10, 1890 which makes his present age at this time over 90, and we are going to talk to Mr. Strickland about his early years of his childhood, growing up around Girdletree and that area, out in the country and up to about 1930. Mr. Strickland where were you born?
CLARENCE: Actually I was born in Philadelphia. Both my parents soon moved down to Klej Grange.
INTERVIEWER: Why did they move down to Klej Grange? Did you have family here?
CLARENCE: Yes. They came from Klej Grange and went to Philadelphia for a year or so.
INTERVIEWER: And then came back home. What do you remember about Klej Grange and the area around there when you were a little boy growing up? How long did you live at Klej Grange and that area?
CLARENCE: About 15 years.
INTERVIEWER: So you spent most of your childhood there? Were there lots of people living there then? How many families were around there?
CLARENCE: Well there was a goodly number, it was still a small village. Some had moved away after the Drexels gave up on it.
INTERVIEWER: The Drexels, weren’t there when you were there, were they?
CLARENCE: No. Mr. Joseph Drexel, who was the original head of the operation, he died. He was dead when I first remembered.
INTERVIEWER: Were there any buildings that were still there, that were left over from the Company or the operation that Mr. Drexel had had?
CLARENCE: There were quite a few dwelling houses.
INTERVIEWER: Now he had built those? Or had the people that had come down to work for the Company built those? Do you know?
CLARENCE: I don’t know, but they were sort of all alike. And Drexel Company, I think, had them built for about 200 dollars apiece. By a Snow Hill firm.
INTERVIEWER: And then they rented them out to their employees.
CLARENCE: Yes. Some were sold and some Drexel rented.
INTERVIEWER: What sort of stores were in Klej Grange when you were growing up?
CLARENCE: Well my father had a store there and there was another small store.
INTERVIEWER: What sort of things did your father sell?
CLARENCE: It was a General Store.
INTERVIEWER: He sold everything.
CLARENCE: Except tobacco. He wouldn’t sell tobacco.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have meats?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Where did you get your meats?
CLARENCE: Well you did very little with fresh meat, because we had no refrigeration. So we carried cured meats.
INTERVIEWER: What did the other store sell? That your father had the general store.
CLARENCE: Actually I don’t know. But he did carry tobacco.
INTERVIEWER: Who had that store? Do you remember?
CLARENCE: The other store? Will Hillman.
INTERVIEWER: Was there a church in Klej Grange?
CLARENCE: Yes. It’s still there.
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t it an Episcopal church or was it?
CLARENCE: There was an Episcopal church there, but it’s gone down. It’s been abandoned, when I was a boy and finally it went down and disappeared. The old gravestones are still there.
INTERVIEWER: What kind of church was there when you were growing up? Methodist?
CLARENCE: Methodist.
INTERVIEWER: Where did you all go to school?
CLARENCE: I went there to Klej Grange until I was in the 6th grade, then I went over to Girdletree.
INTERVIEWER: You went to Girdletree. Well that’s really moving up isn’t it? Was Klej Grange a one room school?
CLARENCE: Yes, but we had a big building there. Two rooms, two big rooms downstairs, and a big hall upstairs, all in one room. We used to have gatherings there upstairs, sort of a hall.
INTERVIEWER: I didn’t realize that. Now that building is not there, is it?
CLARENCE: No. I’m sure the Drexels built it.
INTERVIEWER: They built it for the school. Do you remember any of your teachers at Klej Grange? Who any of them were?
CLARENCE: Yes. My first year was Ms. Jenny Bonneville, and then Ms. Richardson and then Ms. Annie Bonneville.
INTERVIEWER: Were they sisters?
CLARENCE: No. She was from Snow Hill and Ms. Jennie Bonneville was from Pocomoke. Ms. Minnie Richardson was from Snow Hill.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. She was your second teacher there. About how many students were in this school? I know that’s a hard question. Would it be closer to 15 or closer to 30? Or more than that?
CLARENCE: I don’t think there were over 25.
INTERVIEWER: Did you just have basic reading and writing and arithmetic?
CLARENCE: I think so. We had the regular schedule of public school students.
INTERVIEWER: What sort of school year did you follow? Did you get off to harvest and plant? How many months did you go to school? I think it was different than it is now.
CLARENCE: It was a nine month period. Some of the kids didn’t make it, cause they would have to stay home and work on the farm.
INTERVIEWER: When they did that, then they would just come to school when the work on the farm was over. And pick up where they left off.
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Did you work while you were growing up while you were still in school? Did you have chores to do around the house?
CLARENCE: Oh yes.
INTERVIEWER: Not paid work.
CLARENCE: No paid work!!!
INTERVIEWER: You just didn’t sit around idle did you?
CLARENCE: No, we always had something to do around home.
INTERVIEWER: Did you help out at the store? At your father’s store at all?
CLARENCE: At times, yes.
INTERVIEWER: Did you all live, I don’t know if you can say that Klej Grange had an “in town”, did you live right in town or did you live out from Klej Grange?
CLARENCE: Right in town. Right near the old Episcopal church.
INTERVIEWER: Did you all have a garden?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Did you tend to that?
CLARENCE: Under my mother’s supervision.
INTERVIEWER: She must have supervised you well, as much as you have learned and know about gardening. Did you all can and preserve and keep everything from the garden as provisions for the next year?
CLARENCE: Yes, to a certain extent. She canned tomatoes more than anything else.
INTERVIEWER: You said you had no refrigeration, was there any storage for ice? Did you have an ice house or anything like that?
CLARENCE: No.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have a root cellar? Root hole or whatever?
CLARENCE: No. But they were put in hills or something. However you wanted to keep them. Cover it. Put it in a pile and cover it with shats and dirt.
INTERVIEWER: It wouldn’t freeze in there. It was still loose enough that you could get in there and pull things out. What would you put in there? Carrots, potatoes?
CLARENCE: Potatoes, sweet potatoes and maybe turnips.
INTERVIEWER: Where did you get your water? Did you have a well or was there a spring?
CLARENCE: We had a well. Some fellow’d drive a pump down to a stream point. You could get water anywhere. Likely to be iron-y.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have a spring house? Someplace associated with your well where you would keep milk and butter and things cool?
CLARENCE: No.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have cows, or beef cattle or anything like that?
CLARENCE: We kept one cow.
INTERVIEWER: Just for milk and butter. Your mother made her butter and everything?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have chickens?
CLARENCE: Yes, I think we kept a few chickens. Everybody had chickens then.
INTERVIEWER: Yes, that’s what I was thinking. A lot of people that I have talked to have all these things right here, so they were pretty self-sufficient, as far as having to buy something somewhere else.
CLARENCE: Yes. They couldn’t buy much, because they had no money to buy with.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have fruit trees?
CLARENCE: Yes, yes. I remember my father planted some fruit trees. I think there’s one there now, an old Keefer pear.
INTERVIEWER: Oh really. It’s old isn’t it?
CLARENCE: Yes indeed.
INTERVIEWER: What would you do, let’s say, in the summertime for recreation? Or entertainment as a young boy? If you had free time?
CLARENCE: Well, we would go down to the river, if my mother would let us go, and go fishing. And even paddle up to Deep Landing, where the country club is and go in swimming.
INTERVIEWER: Really. Did you have a boat?
CLARENCE: We would have to borrow one.
INTERVIEWER: You could usually find a group of boys, and somebody would have a boat. How far is Klej Grange from the river?
CLARENCE: About two miles.
INTERVIEWER: Right, now you would have to walk across the highway to get there? Right?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Deep Landing, is that where Milburn Landing is now?
CLARENCE: No. That’s where the country club is.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, at Pocomoke?
CLARENCE: No, here.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, at Snow Hill.
CLARENCE: Snow Hill’s country club, Nassawango.
INTERVIEWER: Well that’s a right good paddle, isn’t it?
CLARENCE: Not over a mile, at Mattaponi.
INTERVIEWER: My distances are confused when I get on the river. And you would come out at about Mattaponi, wouldn’t you, from Klej Grange?
CLARENCE: That’s right, at the steamboat landing.
INTERVIEWER: Did you, as a boy, the steamboats were still going by, did you get to travel on the steamboats at all?
CLARENCE: Oh yes. If we wanted to go to Baltimore, that was the only way to go.
INTERVIEWER: Were the accommodations nice on the boat?
CLARENCE: Yes. Very good. If you had money to buy your lunch and stateroom. Or you could stay in the men’s cabin and maybe eat out of a shoebox.
INTERVIEWER: You still got there, didn’t you?
CLARENCE: It was three dollars a trip, from here to Baltimore.
INTERVIEWER: Really, and three dollars back.
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: That was right much money in those days, wasn’t it?
CLARENCE: Yes it was.
INTERVIEWER: The hired help for the steamboat, I know they had a captain and a purser, and I’m sure they had a porter or something. Were any local people used as help on the steamboats or were they hired out of Baltimore, do you know?
CLARENCE: I think most of them were hired out of Snow Hill.
INTERVIEWER: Who were some of the steamboat captains? Whose names can you remember?
CLARENCE: Captain Dick Heward, was the only one I ever remember.
INTERVIEWER: Didn’t he have a house right in Snow Hill, along the river, not along the river, was it?
CLARENCE: No, it was on Federal Street. The corner of Morris and Federal, George Jones lives there now.
INTERVIEWER: Do you know any other people from Snow Hill that worked on the steamboat?
CLARENCE: Well, there was first mate, Mr. James Tilghman, I think that was his name and a Mr. Northam was a purser. They are about the only names that I can remember. I think it was the hands all came from Snow Hill.
INTERVIEWER: Now were the deck hands white or black?
CLARENCE: They were all black.
INTERVIEWER: I wondered about that too. Did you ever travel by yourself on the steamboat?
CLARENCE: Oh yes.
INTERVIEWER: When you were young, a little boy?
CLARENCE: Not till after I was 16.
INTERVIEWER: Then you were old enough to look after yourself. One person I talked to that had been when he was 9 or 10 years old. He went to Baltimore by himself, but he had, Mr. Northam was the name he had, the purser sort of looked after him. His mother put him on and told Mr. Northam to look after him. Did you go over to the bay from Klej Grange?
CLARENCE: Yes, occasionally.
INTERVIEWER: That was the further trip, wasn’t it? Or were you right in between the bay and the river?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Well you had to go to Girdletree first, right? And then go down to Girdletree Landing. Did you get oysters and clams, or did you go down there fishing at all?
CLARENCE: No. The times we ever went over the bay was on Sunday School picnics. And they went down to mostly, we went down to Red Hills.
INTERVIEWER: I’ve heard of that. What was down at Red Hills that attracted everybody so much, because everybody went.
CLARENCE: Well, it was a good high land and it was covered with pine trees, great big pine trees, and nice sandy shore.
INTERVIEWER: Would you be allowed to go swimming?
CLARENCE: Oh yes. At Girdletree and Stockton there wasn’t any good place along the shore to go swimming.
INTERVIEWER: Was it marsh?
CLARENCE: Marsh. Muddy.
INTERVIEWER: Now, when you go on a Sunday School picnic, would it be like an all day event?
CLARENCE: Yes it would. It was hard on the mules, I think. They had to pull all the way down there from Klej Grange, and have to haul that wagon back.
INTERVIEWER: Would your mother pack food and everything?
CLARENCE: Yes. There was no place to buy it down there.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember anything special about any of the picnics? Or any special thing that happened?
CLARENCE: No. We all enjoyed it, going in and bathing.
INTERVIEWER: Would the girls go swimming too?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Did you wear bathing suits?
CLARENCE: Some old clothes.
INTERVIEWER: Out from Red Hills, is it shallow a long way out, or was it way back then?
CLARENCE: Yes, it was shallow.
INTERVIEWER: So it was pretty safe for the little children to go in and play too.
CLARENCE: There was very little swimming done, because we didn’t know how to swim. And most of the water was too shallow.
INTERVIEWER: Did you go over to Assateague any, when you still lived in Klej Grange?
CLARENCE: I remember going over to Assateague Beach once or twice, once with the Sunday School picnic. But I don’t remember how long we stayed over there. I don’t think it was overnight.
INTERVIEWER: And you would have had to have some kind of boat to take you over to Assateague.
CLARENCE: Yes, a sailboat.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, a sailboat. I never think of sailboats on the bay. Was it a workboat, like an oyster or something? Even at Klej Grange you weren’t familiar with the ocean. That trip really must have been something, to see the ocean for the first time.
CLARENCE: Yes, it was.
INTERVIEWER: Were the mosquitos as bad as they are now?
CLARENCE: Worse.
INTERVIEWER: They couldn’t be worse.
CLARENCE: There was many more of them then.
INTERVIEWER: So in the summertime you would have Sunday School picnics or go fishing in the river or paddle up to the country club to go swimming. In the summer, did you have a lot more chores around the house to keep you busy, with gardening and things like that?
CLARENCE: Yes, a lot more to be done.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have brothers and sisters?
CLARENCE: Yes, I had 2 brothers and 2 sisters.
INTERVIEWER: So there was enough people in your family to keep you all busy. Now in the wintertime, what would you do for fun and recreation.
CLARENCE: There wasn’t a whole lot. Throw snowballs.
INTERVIEWER: Was there any place to ice skate or to slide on the ice?
CLARENCE: Well usually, there was some small places, but no really good skating ponds.
INTERVIEWER: That’s what I was wondering. Because at Berlin there was Trap Pond. They said a lot of people used to skate there, and down further there is Big Mill, that they used to ice skate. But that is still right far from you, isn’t it? Did your mother make snow ice cream in the winter?
CLARENCE: I don’t remember if she did.
INTERVIEWER: It doesn’t seem to snow as much now as it did when I was little, do you remember big snows when you were a boy?
CLARENCE: Yes, I think it was 1898 or 1899, we had a very heavy snow. I forgot now, but it drifted pretty high, and covered the fences.
INTERVIEWER: Did it really. That’s a big snow.
CLARENCE: Yes everybody stayed home, in front of the fires.
INTERVIEWER: Did you cut firewood just in the woods around your area? Did you have to have permission from whoever owned the land to go cut the wood, or did you just go out in the woods and cut it?
CLARENCE: No, you couldn’t do that. At least nobody did that I know of. It was all privately owned. You had to ask permission to cut anything.
INTERVIEWER: Was one of your chores to split wood or carry it in? Were your brothers older or younger than yourself?
CLARENCE: One older and one younger.
INTERVIEWER: You were in the middle. You could say you were too old to do something or too young to do something.
CLARENCE: We didn’t have any power saws to saw the wood, seems to me my father bought hard wood mostly. We didn’t have very much wood land and we didn’t cut much ourselves.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember when, and I’m not even sure it was still when you were living in Klej Grange, did you get, I’m sure you didn’t have electricity in Klej Grange, did you, and when you came into Snow Hill you did. Where did the train line run in relation to Klej Grange?
CLARENCE: Down to through Girdletree and then Stockton and then down to Franklin City.
INTERVIEWER: Did you ride the train at all?
CLARENCE: Only when we wanted to go to Philadelphia.
INTERVIEWER: Didn’t you have to change trains at Berlin?
CLARENCE: No..
INTERVIEWER: No, you went straight to Wilmington and Philadelphia.
CLARENCE: At least to Harrington. But I think the trains went right on through. Two trains a day each way.
INTERVIEWER: Could you hear the train whistle at Klej Grange from Girdletree?
CLARENCE: Hardly.
INTERVIEWER: That would be a good way to tell time. You’d know what time it was.
INTERVIEWER: Did you get to Franklin City much?
CLARENCE: No.
INTERVIEWER: There wasn’t anything there except the end of the train.
CLARENCE: That’s right.
INTERVIEWER: Did any of the farmers in Klej Grange, there were farmers around Klej Grange.
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: They grew money crops. Right or not?
CLARENCE: I can’t think of any money crops.
INTERVIEWER: What did they grow?
CLARENCE: They grew corn, enough for their own use and stock.
INTERVIEWER: They used that for their animals and things.
CLARENCE: Actually, that’s almost all they grew.
INTERVIEWER: I was wondering if they grew any potatoes to ship out at all?
CLARENCE: It was very limited.
INTERVIEWER: What was in Girdletree that you couldn’t get in your store at Klej Grange? When I picture Girdletree now, I know there is nothing there.
CLARENCE: They must have carried stock of a good many things we didn’t have at Klej Grange.
INTERVIEWER: Who had the...was there one store in Girdletree?
CLARENCE: I think there were 4 or 5.
INTERVIEWER: There were, oh my dear, I can’t picture 4 or 5 stores at Girdletree. Were they all general stores or were they more specific?
CLARENCE: I think they were mostly general stores, and grocery stores. There was one on the corner where there is a store now. And one further on down, at the far end a bar and a store, and Mose Hudson’s store, and Pruitt’s and I don’t know if that’s all or not. Two or three smaller stores.
INTERVIEWER: Where would a lady buy yard goods to make clothes with? Did your store have that?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Boy, you really did have everything, didn’t you? You had to though, because you didn’t...now would you walk to Girdletree?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Or take a team?
CLARENCE: Or bicycle.
INTERVIEWER: Once you got bicycles.
CLARENCE: When I went to school I had a bicycle. But I walked a great deal of the time. It was just about as easy to walk as to ride a bicycle on them dirt roads.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, that’s right.
CLARENCE: Of course, if anybody wanted to go, adults, they’d drive a horse and buddy.
INTERVIEWER: You said you had mules. Did you have a mule? You were talking about mules going down to Red Hills.
CLARENCE: They were owned by one of the members, one of the church members.
INTERVIEWER: They’d donate their mules for the day.
CLARENCE: We didn’t have any mules. Of course the farmers had mules.
INTERVIEWER: Did they use mules rather than horses for plowing or did they use both?
CLARENCE: They used both. The farming was more less just a subsistence type.
INTERVIEWER: When did you get your first car? Do you remember it?
CLARENCE: It was about 1922
INTERVIEWER: Where did you buy it?
CLARENCE: Princess Anne.
INTERVIEWER: In Princess Anne. Were you living toward Westover then or was there just a really good car dealer in that area?
CLARENCE: There was no car dealer in Westover.
INTERVIEWER: What kind was it?
CLARENCE: Model “T” Ford.
INTERVIEWER: It was black, wasn’t it? Were all Model “T’s” black? I think so. Had you ever driven a car before you bought that?
CLARENCE: No.
INTERVIEWER: A lot of people have told me a lot of funny incidents on driving that car home from the showroom. Did you have any problems?
CLARENCE: No, we didn’t have any problems.
INTERVIEWER: You just got in it and drove.
CLARENCE: I must have had some instructions. I don’t remember.
INTERVIEWER: Now was that the kind that cranked up to start it?
CLARENCE: They had the self-starters then. Before I got it. I didn’t want the job of cranking up.
INTERVIEWER: Did your wife drive?
CLARENCE: She drove a little. But she never did drive after we got rid of the Model “T”.
INTERVIEWER: When you came to Snow Hill to start your business, in 1927?....right?
CLARENCE: ‘32.
INTERVIEWER: ‘32. Right. Where was your business?
CLARENCE: It was right over here on Washington Street, on the corner where the willow tree is. The building on the corner.
INTERVIEWER: The building is still there?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Where the IGA used to be? On this side?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Something else used to be there. Didn’t the IGA used to be there not long ago?
CLARENCE: Yes, yes. They were there for awhile.
INTERVIEWER: What were some other businesses in town? You opened a 10 cent store. I believe there wasn’t another 10 cent store in town.
CLARENCE: No.
INTERVIEWER: You saw a need and….
CLARENCE: Yes. The owner of the building, Mr. Elton Jones, he came and suggested it would be a good idea to go there and start in business. He was *unintelligible conversation*.
INTERVIEWER: Where did you live when you moved up to Snow Hill?
CLARENCE: Went down in front of the old school Baptist Church.
INTERVIEWER: Okay. Right on Washington Street.
CLARENCE: Yes. And then we didn’t live there very long, a couple of years and then we moved down here to where we are now.
INTERVIEWER: You came here in the ‘30’s. And the train was still active, here then.
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Passenger train come through here?
CLARENCE: Oh yes.
INTERVIEWER: Yes it did. It came through behind my house. I live by Moore’s Business Forms. It was there. But the freight line came right here down by the river, didn’t it?
CLARENCE: That was just a spur. Main line came down to Franklin City.
INTERVIEWER: Was Worcester Fertilizer active here then?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: At one time, wasn’t there a shingle or barrel factory or something that cut wood over here where Worcester Fertilizer was?
CLARENCE: Yes. There was a big mill there at one time. They had as many as 300 workers.
INTERVIEWER: That’s a big operation.
CLARENCE: They got a shipload of *unintelligible conversation* lumber shipped up here from South, North Carolina and they plane it and do whatever was necessary to make boxes and they’d load six cars everyday and ship them out to Philadelphia and an oil company would ship boxes with cans of oil in them.
INTERVIEWER: You said they made box shooks, are they like slats? They didn’t put the boxes together.
CLARENCE: No.
INTERVIEWER: Pre-cut boards.
CLARENCE: All ready to nail together. They paid less than 10 cents an hour for the men and 3 cents an hour for the boys.
INTERVIEWER: Was that good for men?
CLARENCE: Better than nothing.
INTERVIEWER: When did the part of it stop and Worcester Fertilizer come in?
CLARENCE: I’m not sure of the date. It caught fire and burnt down.
INTERVIEWER: The fires had finished by the time you were up here.
CLARENCE: Yes. There were 2 or 3 big smoke stacks along side of the river.
INTERVIEWER: Now when you were living down at Klej Grange, would you ever come up to Snow Hill for anything?
CLARENCE: Oh yes. My mother used to make some trips, I don’t know how often, but sometimes I would come with her. Or one of the other children. She had to go to the bank and take whatever money they had and deposit it. I think that was the main business, of course you could get any supplies that you needed. It was a right long trip, thru those heavy sandy roads.
INTERVIEWER: I don’t know though it sometimes is easier to drive on wet sand than on that dry land. When you would come up with your mother, what would you do while she, I’m sure you didn’t stay with her the whole time.
CLARENCE: Well, I guess I did. I might of got lost if I’d of gotten away from her.
INTERVIEWER: This was a big town to you. It was then, bigger than it is and more active than it is now.
CLARENCE: Yes, and I was pretty young. I remember they were building Whatcoat Church then. You’d see all those piles of blocks, and Italian men working. Stonemasons. They brought them in and they did a good job.
INTERVIEWER: I didn’t know that.
CLARENCE: I learned why John Walter Smith lived and where Dick Heward and a few others.
INTERVIEWER: Where did you buy shoes, when you were little? Did your father sell them too?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: I just happened to think….
CLARENCE: He didn’t carry a very big stock. Some cheap shoes. Went barefooted all summer. We were glad when it was time to go barefooted.
INTERVIEWER: How long were you in business in your store?
CLARENCE: About 22 years.
INTERVIEWER: So that closed in….
CLARENCE: ‘54. We sold out to Warren Littleton.
INTERVIEWER: Oh you did. Now all this is coming together. That was still before my time here. In your 10 cent store did you carry a variety of things, like your father had had in his store? You didn’t have any food in there, right?
CLARENCE: No. And no yard goods either.
INTERVIEWER: You did not have yard goods? Where would they get yard goods, what was in town then that sold them?
CLARENCE: I think Timmons, across the street. And there was a big store across the street…..
INTERVIEWER: Collins. No Collins was the men’s store.
CLARENCE: Yes. There was a store up there, just beyond the drugstore on that corner, Mason’s. I think owned the building, maybe. Smith. Moore..Hargis seems to me may have been the name.
INTERVIEWER: There was a store by that name. I remember reading about that.
CLARENCE: There was a lumber company too.
INTERVIEWER: Right. They had a little bit of everything. You didn’t carry yard goods and you didn’t carry food, did you carry household appliances? Pots and pans and things like that?
CLARENCE: Nothing expensive.
INTERVIEWER: It wasn’t worth carrying anything expensive. People couldn’t buy it.
CLARENCE: No they wouldn’t buy it.
INTERVIEWER: Let me ask you something. Did you find in your years in business, that you had a heavy trade of the local people or would the local people go to Salisbury when they wanted to buy something? That’s a problem now, here.
CLARENCE: It wasn’t quite such a big problem then, but still, a good many white people could drive out of town. Go to Salisbury, do their shopping. Some of them would even go to Philadelphia.
INTERVIEWER: Rather than deal with the local merchants. They thought it was more classy.
CLARENCE: Good share of our trade was with colored people.
INTERVIEWER: Because where you were located, where the library is now, were housing for blacks, and stores also. And behind you a black section of town. Did you do a credit business?
CLARENCE: No.
INTERVIEWER: Cash only. Alright. Did you have a lot of people working for you, a lot of clerks at one time or could you get by with one or two?
CLARENCE: No we had, I forget now, of course during the week business was quiet, maybe 2 or 3 girls would be sufficient. Then Saturday we would have twice as many.
INTERVIEWER: Saturday was the big day.
CLARENCE: Saturday was a big day.
INTERVIEWER: Did your wife help out in the store?
CLARENCE: Yes. She was the main stay of my many helpers.
INTERVIEWER: Would you divide up the chores? Did you take care of the bookkeeping and everything and she took care of the help and stock or vice-versa, or did you share record keeping and paperwork?
CLARENCE: I took care of the paperwork and she just kinda worked around fixing displays. There was always a lot of work to do at that time.
INTERVIEWER: There couldn’t be a time when you could sit and do nothing, there’s always something that has to be done. Did you have many problems that you knew of with shoplifting?
CLARENCE: Not a whole lot that you knew about.
INTERVIEWER: Generally you know what’s gone and you know who’s taking it, too.
CLARENCE: Some people, just one or two you might say. They didn’t need to steal. I don’t know why they did it.
INTERVIEWER: You always have those. When you sold out to Warren Littleton, did you retire?
CLARENCE: Yes, I retired from hard work. I’ve been more or less busy ever since. I’ve had to slow down a little bit.
INTERVIEWER: Well it’s time to slow down. Tell us about the ferry.
CLARENCE: There was a ferry at Mattaponi. A man and his wife lived there and they were always on call to operate the ferry boat.
INTERVIEWER: Which side did they live on?
CLARENCE: On the south side. This side. North side is all swamp. I think they got about a hundred dollars a year for taking care of the ferry. Then the steamboat wharf, they had a warehouse there, and the wharf and the people would always want to stop there. Then the steamboat, it made two round trips a week. They’d start out Monday morning 6 o’clock from Snow Hill and go on down Mattaponi, and the next stop was Pocomoke, then from there to Rehoboth, and Shelltown and it’s Pitts’ Wharf, then down to Pocomoke, then down to the mouth of the river, down to the sound and by that time they were near the mouth of Onancock Creek…...so they went up the Onancock Creek, clear to town where the main street, two or three, a couple of small wharves on the Creek too. And then they left Onancock and went out to around Watts Island and Tangier. They stopped at Tangiers.
INTERVIEWER: I hadn’t realized that they stopped at Tangier.
CLARENCE: It was right on the way to Crisfield. Crisfield was their last stop. Left Crisfield maybe 8 o’clock, whenever and went on up to Baltimore. Arrive in Baltimore, 5 or 6 o’clock.
INTERVIEWER: The next morning?
CLARENCE: They’d stay tied up there and unload it and load it up and left there 5 or so in the morning, retrace the route clear back to Snow Hill. Be in Snow Hill till the next morning. They went back on the same route to Snow Hill.
INTERVIEWER: Now when the steamboat came in to Snow Hill it docked right out here. Right?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Now when it went to leave did it back up?
CLARENCE: They had to turn around, I think they managed alright.
INTERVIEWER: I see. It just doesn’t seem very big out there. Now was Goat Island there?
CLARENCE: Oh yes.
INTERVIEWER: It was there then. Okay.
CLARENCE: Originally the steamboat came up as far as Shad Landing and that's as far as it could come. They got a dredge and dredged it, the channel clear up here to Snow Hill. Made like a little island.
INTERVIEWER: That’s what Goat Island is, isn’t it? Dredged?
CLARENCE: Yes. They made it an island. So then the steamboat could come on up to Snow Hill, that was way back before my time.
INTERVIEWER: I guess there is just room enough below Goat Island to turn, right?
CLARENCE: They could turn the boat, steamboat, I think by keeping one line fast to the shore and gradually turn it around.
INTERVIEWER: Sort of like pivoting. On that rope. Now I’ll ask you something, behind the *unintelligible conversation* in Snow Hill, behind the chicken plant down the street, where the black section is and the colored church there, wasn’t there a farm there at one time?
CLARENCE: There still is.
INTERVIEWER: There still is. What was the name of that? Dighton?
CLARENCE: They called it Dighton Street or Dighton Avenue, now.
INTERVIEWER: Yes it is.
CLARENCE: The name was Dighton, a place called Dighton. And the people lived there, one time a man named Bowen, Harry Bowen, lived there. There was a house there, a small house.
INTERVIEWER: It’s pretty inaccessible now, isn’t it? Or can you….?
CLARENCE: I think you can drive down there, I haven’t been down there lately.
INTERVIEWER: We came across a postcard which said Dighton’s Farm and it was a picture or photograph and it showed the woods back there and the farm and you could see Virgil Pruitt’s house in that picture. Up at the end there. I figured it was just swamp when you get to the end of Dighton Avenue. But it was high ground.
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Okay.
CLARENCE: It was a small farm, a rather small farm, but he rented the land, as far as I know they still are. But I don’t know.
INTERVIEWER: You talk about the ferry at Mattaponi. How did it work? With a rope?
CLARENCE: There wasn’t a steel cable, as I remember, it was just a heavy rope. And they pulled on that rope. Pulled and pulled and pulled clear on the deck. Pulled the boat across.
INTERVIEWER: If it was swampy, on the other side of the ferry…...the ferry went across the river, right? What was there, there for people to come across from or to?
CLARENCE: They built a road through the swamp. Maybe as much as a quarter of a mile or not it ended on high ground. The farm at Adams Wharf, near Adams Wharf, and then, from then on it was high ground, went on over to Conbin and somewhere.
INTERVIEWER: And that saved a tremendous amount of time. Instead of driving around. Because otherwise you would have to go all the way down to Pocomoke, all the way up from Snow Hill.
CLARENCE: Well you didn’t have to go to Pocomoke, you could go to McMasters Ferry. There was a ferry dock down there.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, there was. I didn’t know about that one either. Did you ever go down to Public Landing for Foresters Day or Farmers Day?
CLARENCE: Yes. After we were big enough to travel that far away from home.
INTERVIEWER: Was that a really big day?
CLARENCE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: I’ve heard other people say that everybody, especially from out in the forest, came in to that.
CLARENCE: Yes, that was a big day. People went in swimming, the kids had a good time. We didn’t go to Ocean City much then.
INTERVIEWER: Now did you go to Ocean City though when you were growing up? On the train, did you ever take that excursion train?
CLARENCE: I don’t believe I did until I was through public school. We had a bicycle and we traveled more on them.
INTERVIEWER: When you were growing up, you were out at Klej Grange, but had you ever heard or know anything of any of the families that used to live out near the Iron Furnace?
CLARENCE: No. There was, actually was, not in our neighborhood, almost in another world.
INTERVIEWER: Right. I bet so. And the forest, because the forest, it was another world to you too.
CLARENCE: Yes. Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Were there any tales that you all heard? Pocomoke Forest usually has a lot of ghost stories and weird tales. Were there any ones that you remember hearing as a child, or was it just completely out of the way?
CLARENCE: No we didn’t hear anything about that. There were strange people over in the forest.
INTERVIEWER: There were?
CLARENCE: Strange to us.
INTERVIEWER: Did they pretty well keep to themselves, evidently?
CLARENCE: The river was a good dividing line. We didn’t cross over very much. One time I remember, they used to bring loads of lumber over on the ferry, a man in Betheden used to have a mill over there, and mule teams over to lumbering *unintelligible conversation* this time the ferry was on that side he attempted to drive up on it and his mules got up almost, and the apron on the land side must have not been secured, and he slipped down and pushed the ferry out into the river and a load of lumber fell back and dragged the mules in and drowned them.
INTERVIEWER: Oh my. That was a bad time.
CLARENCE: Yes, I don’t think there is any man, driver - I don’t think he got drowned.
INTERVIEWER: But still losing two mules, you have lost quite an investment, and his lumber too.
CLARENCE: Yes, his lumber, and don’t know if he got the wagon or not.
INTERVIEWER: Was the river deep in that area? It must have been if it drowned mules.
CLARENCE: Yes, probably 12-15 feet deep. There was several drownings there, of course there’s been some drownings in Snow Hill.
INTERVIEWER: You were saying your mother wouldn’t let you go with the boat to go swimming. She worried a lot while you were gone, I imagine.
CLARENCE: Yes, and we didn’t get to go until we were almost grown.
INTERVIEWER: When you could talk her into it.