Petitt, Ralph (1884-1982) |
Worcester County Library: Local History and Genealogy Collection, Snow Hill Branch, Snow Hill, MD
|
Interviewee: |
Ralph Petitt (1884-1982) |
| Interviewer: |
Katherine P. Fisher |
| Date of interview: |
1979 June 16 |
| Length of interview: |
1 hour 30 mins |
| Transcribed by: |
Lisa Baylous |
| Preferred Citation: |
“Name, Oral History Collection, Date of Interview, Worcester County Library, Snow Hill Branch, Snow Hill, Maryland.” |
Topical Terms:
Fishing
Public Hanging
Snow Hill (Md.)—Fire 1893
Transportation
Worcester County (Md.)—Education
Worcester County (Md.)—History
Worcester County (Md.)—Social life and customs
Location Terms:
Snow Hill (Md.)
INTERVIEW BEGIN
INTERVIEWER: --Petitt who was born in 1884 in Snow Hill. And, um, he is visiting his sister, Miss Ollie Davis. Right? And—
OLIVE: Olive Davis.
INTERVIEWER: Olive. Oh, all right. Olive Davis. And, this is June the sixteenth, (unintelligible) 1979. All right. Mr. Petitt, you were born in Snow Hill?
RALPH: Snow Hill. (unintelligible) now? You want the name of the street?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
RALPH: What street is that called, now? What would that be? Hill Street?
OLIVE: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. That would be Collins—
RALPH: (unintelligible) Walnut.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Walnut and Collins. Isn’t it Hill Street and Collins?
RALPH: (unintelligible) Collins.
INTERVIEWER: Collins Street. Ok. Now—
RALPH: Right on the corner there.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Ok. I know where that is. In the, is the house still there?
RALPH: Still there—
INTERVIEWER: Still there.
RALPH: (unintelligible) another hundred years.
INTERVIEWER: Good. Right. Um, just, if you will, tell me about some of the things you remember growing up in Snow Hill. I’ll ask questions as I think of them. Um, any work you did or what you did for entertainment or church activities or anything like that.
RALPH: So, you want to know what happened to the town?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. And you, too! (Laughing)
RALPH: Well, I’ll tell you what happened to the town in ’93.
INTERVIEWER: Ok.
RALPH: The town burnt up.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, that’s right! I forgot. And you remember that?
RALPH: Oh, I was right there!
INTERVIEWER: Were you really?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, goodness!
RALPH: And, they, they brought the, they brought the engines in here from Baltimore.
INTERVIEWER: Did they, really?
RALPH: (Really). The engines came in here (unintelligible) right on the job. 7:00 in the morning. The fire started in the center of the town. Just the stores. It started at 11:00 at night. And, the engines got here at 7:00 in the morning. It was a special train.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. That’s what I was going to ask. They came by train?
RALPH: Yeah. It was a special train that came in and brought them on flat cars. And, there’s a railroad track right alongside the Pocomoke River. And, they came in there. And, uh, they throwed the hose overboard to get the water—(unintelligible) water—only the old bucket.
INTERVIEWER: And, they got it right out of the river?
RALPH: And, they got the water out of the river— When the fire was over, all they’d done, was left, was the chimleys standing. See, and then knocked them down with the force of the water. And then, they didn’t stay long. You see, because the fire was all over.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) But, they had come.
RALPH: So they— Of course, the engineer and all waited for them and—and when they were all finished, why, they went on back to Baltimore.
INTERVIEWER: That’s neat.
RALPH: But, they got the water out of the river.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Do that.
RALPH: See, there was no water.
INTERVIEWER: That’s right. There wasn’t. Um, how do you remember having heard how the fire started? Do you remember hearing about that?
RALPH: (unintelligible) Did you Ollie? Started in one of the stores?
OLIVE: Yes. A lamp.
INTERVIEWER: A lamp.
OLIVE: An oil lamp.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. An oil lamp. One over. Ok. Um—
OLIVE: (unintelligible) house.
INTERVIEWER: Right. No, I don’t think I would either.
RALPH: The courthouse burnt up. The jail burnt up. (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Um, did they rebuild fairly rapidly—
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: --after that?
RALPH: Yes. It seemed during the (unintelligible) it would warp and they weren’t allowed to put wood back. They had to put brick. So, that’s the reason—(unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: --up there now. Um—
RALPH: Now, the bank wasn’t touched.
INTERVIEWER: Oh. It wasn’t?
RALPH: No.
INTERVIEWER: All right. I didn’t know about that.
RALPH: And, of course, there was only one bank (unintelligible). And, the fire never touched that.
INTERVIEWER: My! What were some of the businesses that were here, uh, let’s say before the fire? Some people who owned stores downtown. Or some businesses. Do you remember that?
RALPH: you mean working—business? Huh?
INTERVIEWER: Like, some of the, was there a dress shop or was there a little restaurant or anything?
RALPH: Oh, well, for, for the men, there was—
OLIVE: (unintelligible) a milliner shop.
RALPH: --(unintelligible) mill, the big mill—was there.
INTERVIEWER: Was that where Worcester Fertilizer—
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: --used to be? Ok.
RALPH: (unintelligible) Fertilizer. That was a big mill. And, the wages for a teenager was three cents an hour. Three cents an hour. I worked there. And, a man with a family was seven cents.
INTERVIEWER: My! How many hours did you work a day?
RALPH: Ten hours a day. Thirty cents.
INTERVIEWER: My! That’s not much. Was it, was it enough to live on then?
OLIVE: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. It was, then.
RALPH: If you had a dollar, you were rich!
OLIVE: (unintelligible) had a dollar.
INTERVIEWER: Right. And, you could (unintelligible).
RALPH: Wait, wait ‘til you hear what she…She worked in the newspaper office…her wages, what she got!
INTERVIEWER: Did you really? Now, what newspaper was this?
OLIVE: The Messenger.
INTERVIEWER: The Messenger. What did you get? When was this that you worked there?
OLIVE: Uh— I don’t—(unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Dates just run together with me.
OLIVE: Yes. (Unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: But, what wages did you get?
OLIVE: Four dollars.
INTERVIEWER: A week?
OLIVE: Uh huh.
RALPH: How much did you get?
OLIVE: Four dollars.
RALPH: Four dollars?
INTERVIEWER: A week. My dear! That doesn’t sound like much. Um, what at the mill, where you worked, did they, did they make finished lumber or—
RALPH: No. The lumber come in the Pocomoke River on barges. The tug boat brought it in. You know what barges are? Well, then, there was just, uh, they would bring in maybe three, four, five barge-fulls—at a time. And then, they had, uh, wood sheds, right along the water there. And, they unload it in the sheds. And, the mill shipped six carloads a day out of there. They made boxes. Wooden boxes. See, they cut lumber up—and made, didn’t make the box. They cut it up for the size of a box. All—(unintelligible) to be nailed together.
INTERVIEWER: All right. But, they shipped it knocked down. Yeah.
RALPH: And, they got six carloads of that out a day.
INTERVIEWER: A day!
RALPH: Solid lumber all cut for boxes a, a, a day. Six carloads!
INTERVIEWER: My! That’s a lot!
RALPH: And, uh, it went to Philadelphia to Atlantic Oil people. And, the oil people, there was no baseboard. The oil people packed their oil in there and shipped it. Well, the—lumber went in there and they nailed the boxes together. The oil people— Nailed it together. And, they shipped oil in boxes—
INTERVIEWER: In boxes of oil.
RALPH: --(unintelligible) into that. There wasn’t baseboards.
INTERVIEWER: I didn’t, I, I figured cardboard had been here forever. But, that’s something. Um, (unintelligible) about how many people did that mill employ?
RALPH: Well, let me see. There was two…well, one, two, three, four. (Unintelligible) two at the planer. (unintelligible) Then, the ones that brought it to the planer was two more was six…And, and upstairs— There was one, two, three…That was seven people to a planer.
INTERVIEWER: My! And, there were how many planers?
RALPH: And, and, and, uh, and then, there was four planes—working. There was six in there, but they only operated four.
INTERVIEWER: Four at a time. Ok.
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: So, that was about twenty-eight…Four sevens are twenty-eight people.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: That’s, that’s good—
RALPH: And then, they had extra people, like, uh, like, uh, the, the scrap lumber— They got a machine, now, with sixteen saw (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Sixteen?
RALPH: Yeah. And, the scrap went in…There was two men that (unintelligible)—with the scrap wood—like was cut off—at the end of the boards. And, and that went in there, into this machine. And, it, it was a (unintelligible) machine. See, it taken the lumber through the saws. It was always going through.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. What, they were feeding the scrap lumber into—
RALPH: Oh!
INTERVIEWER: --the sixteen saws?
RALPH: Yeah—there (unintelligible) scrap lumber went into those saws and they were like a (unintelligible). (unintelligible) taking it through. And then, it (unintelligible) the second floor. And, it went down a big chute. And, at the end of this chute would hold the wagon loaders scrap through cutting blocks—(unintelligible)—understand. And, uh, a fellow with a horse and cart—he’d come (unintelligible) and open that back door and all that would run out to this cart and unload it. See? And then, he went down to the splinter mill.
INTERVIEWER: Well! Now, where was that?
RALPH: Splinter mill was the name along the river there—well…I would say, you know where the parking lot is on that side, back of the post office? Well, the splinter mill was back in there. And, that was operated by women.
INTERVIEWER: It was?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! Neat!
RALPH: They had round machines. (Unintelligible) machines about that big— And, they would take this (unintelligible) wood was all cut the same length—but different sizes. And, they put a string right down in that machine. And, they filled the machine up with this scrap wood. And then, they put their foot on the pedal, and that squeezed the bundle together. And then, they tied a knot in the screen that would come out in the solid bundle of wood. It was about that long and about that big around. And, that lumber was shipped. Now, when I went that, out to the city, I’d seen it. It was shipped to Philadelphia. Well, I’m gonna explain what happened.
INTERVIEWER: Good.
RALPH: It was shipped into, in Philadelphia—and, at that period, it was like a grocery store on every corner. That was before the big store—in the city. Well, you see, this wood would be sitting (unintelligible) seen that, I thought I was home. (LAUGHING) And, uh, that was out, was all on the front—because it was a good seller. Oh, yes! It was a good seller. That’s what people started their coal fires with, in the houses.
INTERVIEWER: Well, for goodness sakes.
RALPH: You can go, you could go there and spend five cents and buy a bundle of wood—and go home and start your coal fire. That was the only way you could start your fire.
OLIVE: Isn’t that something?
INTERVIEWER: I had no idea! That’s fascinating!
RALPH: See? And that was a good seller and that wood was made in—
INTERVIEWER: in Snow Hill.
RALPH: Snow Hill.
INTERVIEWER: Well, you do think you were home, then. Didn’t you?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: That was good. All right. Now, um, only men worked at the mill where you worked—
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Right?
RALPH: Men only.
INTERVIEWER: Right. And, ladies (unintelligible)—
RALPH: (unintelligible) engineer and farmer—And—And, uh, the sawdust—came from the saws from that mill. It was hauled to the electric light plant. That’s what they kept steam with. It was sawdust. The wood mill (unintelligible)—(unintelligible) back there by the depot—That was operated by (unintelligible). And, uh, the sawdust went to that mill. And that was the big mill, the electrified plant—and the work (unintelligible) , work factory—all operated on sawdust. And, it didn’t cost nothing. Only for the hauling. And, and (unintelligible) at the mill—there was so much sawdust, they still couldn’t get rid of it. And, they had what they called a (unintelligible). That was a great big timber—stood out there. And that burnt all the time. You’d see the fire coming out of the top. It was built all great big, round. And, it blowed the sawdust in there. They had blowers, and blow it in—what was left over. See, they had to get rid of it—
INTERVIEWER: Right. Because it was too dangerous to have around—
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: --the fires.
RALPH: And, uh, there wasn’t enough plants to use it up. And, the sp-, sp-, splinter mill used it, too.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. To operate that.
RALPH: Steam. And, and, uh—
INTERVIEWER: I had never thought about that. Well, now, did they…They used this sawdust to get the heat to heat the steam to run the mill.
RALPH: How did they get it?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
RALPH: Well, in the later days, they used to have to shovel it into the, they had to…Let me see…one, two, three, about four, four big boilers. And, they had a man there to take to it. And, in the later days, they put (unintelligible) pipes in. See—-and the fire men in, in there, all he had to do was watch his gages—-and then he pulled the levers—and that would automatic feed the furnace—see—with sawdust. But, when I first went there—
INTERVIEWER: They were shoveling.
RALPH: --that wasn’t there. It was all shovel work to keep steam. Now, all he done was just sit there in a big chair and watch his gages and then, as it needed—lower steam, he’d go over and pull the lever and sawdust would come in—see. And the fire would start.
INTERVIEWER: Right. And (unintelligible)—
RALPH: (unintelligible) full of steam.
INTERVIEWER: That’s neat.
RALPH: And, it didn’t cost the plant anything—for, for steam. Didn’t cost the electric light plant. Only for hauling. And the (unintelligible) for hauling. (unintelligible) the operator (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Neat. Now, where was the Electric Light Plant?
RALPH: Well, right at the river. Right--
INTERVIEWER: All right. Where?
RALPH: (unintelligible) you see where the river bridge is now?
INTERVIEWER: Right.
RALPH: Well, then, if you were going to Salisbury, understand—it’ll be on the left side. There’s a wooden shack over there with a blacksmith shop.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. If I’m going to Salisbury…If we’re going to Salisbury—
RALPH: Before you cross the bridge.
INTERVIEWER: --before you cross the bridge, where the—
RALPH: On the left side.
INTERVIEWER: --on the left side.
RALPH: You see, it’s, it’s nothing there, now.
INTERVIEWER: Right. And, the Atkins Company was there for a while—
RALPH: (unintelligible) the, the Electric Plant went right to the water.
INTERVIEWER: To the water. All right.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: I can picture that.
RALPH: On that side. And there was a wooden shack over there on the right side— Right side, there’s a wooden shack— Well, that was a blacksmith shop.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, it was?
RALPH: Yeah— And, and, and next to the blacksmith shop was all one room but (unintelligible). And, next to the blackberry…I mean to the (unintelligible) shop—was a wheelwright shop. They made carriages. See. And wagons—-and different things—for the farmers. And, the blacksmith made the, uh, horseshoes. Then, they put the iron tires on the wood.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. So, they really worked together there.
RALPH: This lady, Elsie—her grandfather was a, he’s the one that made the carriages…Wheelwright. Her grandfather.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! That’s good. I’ll, I want to talk to her. I’ll wait ‘til this winter, though, with her. That’ll be good. Um, now---
RALPH: Now, you go the splinter mill. Operated by women. No men.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Ok. And, the blacksmith shop and the wheelwright shop, right off the east side of the bridge.
RALPH: Yes. That’s where that old shack’s standing, now.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Um, with the big, high roof, sort of like a glass thing on top.
RALPH: Yeah. That, that, that wasn’t there.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, it wasn’t?
RALPH: No. That’s been built. The blacksmith shop and the wheelwright shop have been torn down—and that’s been there since. I don’t know when that was put there.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Good. That helps (unintelligible).
RALPH: But, that’s not the blacksmith shop or the—
INTERVIEWER: Or the wheelwright shop. Ok. Now, um, the, the train that went through that, that carried the trainloads of boxes to Philadelphia—
RALPH: (unintelligible) lumber.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. That was a freight train. And that—
RALPH: That was a freight train. Yes.
INTERVIEWER: The freight train used that track—
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: --the passenger train used a different track.
RALPH: Oh, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: The one out—
RALPH: Outside.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Right outside the (unintelligible)—
RALPH: (unintelligible) never came in there.
INTERVIEWER: All right. That’s what I thought.
RALPH: (unintelligible) on it. And, he came every day except on Sunday. See. Because the mail run every day—There was about six cars (unintelligible) box wood (unintelligible). And, it went to the Altantic Oil Company—in Philadelphia.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Now, was there any other business or factory in town that shipped things out on the train? I just don’t know. Was there, um…I know there was fertilizer there late, later.
RALPH: (unintelligible) there was, uh nothing except some farm stuff in—the summer—you see. Well, there might be something, you know, they used to…They shipped cattle on trains. They had cattle cars, you know.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! That’s right!
RALPH: Oh, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
RALPH: They even had chicken cars.
INTERVIEWER: Chicken cars!
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Well, I’ve heard of cattle cars but, I’ve never heard of a chicken car.
RALPH: The chicken car was loaded with chicken. Live chickens—see? And, uh, they had, uh, partitions in there and it was all slats—it was a solid car—see. Either sides were all slats. And, they had an aisle where the doors were (unintelligible). And, there was a man right with them chickens. He’d give them water—tend to them (unintelligible). Sure.
INTERVIEWER: Oh. I didn’t know they did that.
RALPH: Yeah. (LAUGHING)
INTERVIEWER: Oh, that’s neat!
RALPH: And then, (unintelligible) went into the (back) car and he went to his destination while the chickens were (unintelligible). Now, I don’t, I couldn’t tell you where they were shipped to. And, you never seen a man sitting in the car watching the chickens?
INTERVIEWER: No. (LAUGHING) Oh! That’s good! Aw! Now, there was a, um, there was a brickyard—
RALPH: (unintelligible) worked there.
INTERVIEWER: And, you worked there. That’s out Washington Street. Right?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Right on—
RALPH: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) Road.
RALPH: (unintelligible) Wood.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) Wood.
RALPH: He had two sons. He had two sons. One got killed by the, out here on Pocomoke Road. He got killed by bootleggers during Prohibition. And, they never found out who killed him. Never found out. And, Oscar, he was in Philadelphia. And, he had trucks where the produce come in. And, he, he delivered seafood to the hotels and restaurants—in Philadelphia—He didn’t run the trucks. He was the owner of (unintelligible). And, he had hired help. See. And then, he wound up— In his later years, he went into his garage, started the machine up and commit suicide. Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: That was a tragic family. Wasn’t it?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Goodness. Um, tell me about the brickyard. I, all, all that I know is that little pool that’s there, now. And, there’s not much left.
RALPH: I guess not.
INTERVIEWER: No.
RALPH: I, I haven’t seen it since I left there. The, uh…Well, I worked there. I guess I was ten years old. Twenty-five hundred bricks a day for a day’s work. Twenty-five hundred— (unintelligible) Mr. Bedford was the, uh, brick maker. And, I had to take them from the table and put them out into the yard. And, they would dry by the sun.
INTERVIEWER: They…I was wondering about that.
RALPH: They would dry by the sun. And, every day, there was three of us…The man that (unintelligible), that (unintelligible) them mud in (unintelligible)—the table. And then, the man that made the brick, (unintelligible) molds. Same size as a brick. And, that brick had (unintelligible). See, when I came back and put it into the yard in the row—and when you, and when the row, you put a hundred—see. To the row. And, you made that first row straight. Had to be straight. You’re taking out one brick at a time. Come back and get another one— And, it was mud, you know. And, you had to be very careful it didn’t slip out of the iron mold. (unintelligible). And, uh, you got a hundred in that row. And then, you make twenty-five rows, you don’t have to count them.
INTERVIEWER: That’s right.
RALPH: Yes. (unintelligible) row.
INTERVIEWER: I can see where you had to get it straight, though.
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: You’d have a mess. Um—
RALPH: They had to be straight.
INTERVIEWER: Right.
RALPH: Like everything else. You know what you’re doing. And, that kept you, me, a boy, (unintelligible) all the time, because you had to be back, put that brick out in the yard, and be back by the time he had one made. ‘Cause, ‘cause you, when you made your twenty-five hundred, you went home. We usually got done around noon. Before the sun got hot. See. But, we come at daybreak. Soon as you could see in the morning—you was working. Because, you didn’t want to work in the afternoon. It was too hot—in that sun.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Um, did, did you just lay the bricks on the ground, or—
RALPH: On the ground.
INTERVIEWER: Right on the ground.
RALPH: Right on the ground. And, the sun dried them, and the next day, you’re taking them in. We had sheds. And (unintelligible) well, they were low to the ground—(unintelligible) sheds. And, you went in there. You wheeled them in with a wheelbarrow. And then, you packed them with a crack between them so they could dry hard. Then, after they dried hard into these sheds—they had a kiln. Kiln. Then, they take them out of these shells, put them in the kiln. And when they got kiln (unintelligible) kiln about as big as this house around, I guess. Yeah. And when they got that kiln full, they had to store them. They had to make arches—with the bricks, so the fire would go through—at the bottom. See? And, they, in those days, they, the fire (unintelligible) wood. That was the only thing to have. And, it would take about two weeks to (unintelligible) to (unintelligible). Yeah. And, that would, uh…See, after they (unintelligible)—(unintelligible). And, they went in there and they got all the (unintelligible) in the air. It was high as a two-story house.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my! I can’t picture, I just can’t picture that in there.
RALPH: And, and (unintelligible) bricks seal the doorway up with bricks and mortar. So the smoke couldn’t get out. And then, they had a man with wood, you know. And, they, they had them fire holes ever—just a little distance apart. And, he had to go up and down them on, on both ends. Climb this side then go around the other end—
INTERVIEWER: And fire that.
RALPH: --and (unintelligible) fire—
INTERVIEWER: I’ll be darned.
RALPH: --see.
INTERVIEWER: And, they had to keep that fire going continually?
RALPH: Oh, yeah. Continually. (Unintelligible) time. And then, it was a certain amount of time and they’d tear that brick door out. Tear it all apart. And, there was the bricks.
INTERVIEWER: Well, for goodness sakes.
RALPH: And then, they, they shipped them on the train.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. They did ship them. Did local people build with those bricks?
RALPH: Huh?
INTERVIEWER: Were, were there any houses built with those bricks locally?
RALPH: Yeah. Sure.
INTERVIEWER: There were.
RALPH: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Ok.
RALPH: Yeah. And, what, uh, maybe add contracts with outside people.
INTERVIEWER: All right. But, you could just go—
RALPH: The shipments, mostly, were on the freight cars. See, they hauled…The freight yard wasn’t too far from there. And, they hauled them from the brickyard to the freight car. I started young. I was working when I was ten years old.
INTERVIEWER: That is young.
RALPH: Ten years old.
INTERVIEWER: My, dear.
RALPH: (unintelligible) I had it hard. We didn’t have no mother, you know. See, our mother died when I was five years old. My sister was only three. Well, we didn’t have no mother and we had it tough. We had it tough. And, the day my father was buried, I was fourteen. And, I didn’t have no home. I wound up with no home. I turned out in the world.
INTERVIEWER: You seem to have made it.
RALPH: Yes, indeed. I, I, I had it rough. And, with all my roughness—You know how long I’m on one payroll? I’m still on it.
INTERVIEWER: You’re still on it? For retirement?
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. How long?
RALPH: Seventy-five years.
INTERVIEWER: Seventy-five years.
RALPH: That’s one payroll since 1904. And, they are still paying me. When I get my pension check, I got the same numbers I had—
INTERVIEWER: Do you really?
RALPH: --when I (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: That must be some sort of record.
RALPH: You ever hear of seventy-five years on one payroll.
INTERVIEWER: No. I never have heard of that. Goodness! That’s a long time! Well, now, you moved to, did you move to Philadelphia?
RALPH: I, I went to, left Snow Hill in 1903.
INTERVIEWER: All right. And you were—
RALPH: And, I got married in Philadelphia in, in 1906. (unintelligible) in January. The year just started. 1906. And, I lived there well, (unintelligible). And, I came here to, stayed here two years until I got my home. Then, I went back to Philadelphia. The home in Philadelphia is like it’s here. And, my home for fifty-six years, I lived right across the street from (unintelligible). I’m practically back home!
INTERVIEWER: Yes, you are. That’s something.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Huh! Oh, dear. Um, when you, I know you were working young when you were growing up, but, what did you do for, um, recreation when you had time for fun?
RALPH: Ride a bicycle.
INTERVIEWER: Did you really? Ok. Well, where…Tell me about that, and where you (unintelligible)—
RALPH: Well, we used to ride down (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: That’s a long ride!
RALPH: Oh, it’s only seven miles. I used to walk it. We kids used to walk (unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Did you really?
RALPH: Yeah. I walked down there—And then, those days, the rich people in Snow Hill built a bicycle path. It was about six miles and about four foot wide. And, it was just as nice as this floor. And, it went through the woods and made a shortcut. You didn’t, you could do it less than seven miles— See, it went right through the woods— (unintelligible) from here to the (unintelligible) the rich boys. In that time, the, the poor boy didn’t have no bicycle. But, (unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that neat.
RALPH: --when I, uh, when I got about, uh, fifteen—I think, I got a bicycle. You see, there was a steamboat running in here. Big boat. And, I met a fella on the, on the boat—see. It run to Baltimore.—and, I asked him would he pick me up a bicycle in Baltimore—So, he went to (unintelligible) Shop—and, and picked up a bicycle—and boy! That was a good one! Ten dollars. That was a good one.
INTERVIEWER: That’s good. Well, now, this bicycle path, about where did it start in Snow Hill? Where did you pick it up?
RALPH: Why, just on the edge of town. Just on the (unintelligible)—town.
INTERVIEWER: Now, let me ask you this…Now, at the edge of town, there’re open fields, but, was there woods?
RALPH: It, it, uh started around, uh, say the depot out there.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Good. That does that.
RALPH: And (unintelligible) horses (unintelligible) (Recording cut out briefly)
INTERVIEWER: On that bicycle path!
RALPH: Yeah. And, it was right to the woods, you know. Wagons and horses—and everything like that could get through. It was private.
INTERVIEWER: I’ll bet that was nice.
RALPH: Yeah. Money people done that. (Unintelligible) But, the poor boys used it.
INTERVIEWER: Good. That’s good. That’s really good. Um, now, when you went down to Public Landing…Now, when you went, when you were young, there was, was there a wharf or a pier or anything there?
RALPH: No. There was no wharf. But, there was, uh…I think there was a small boardwalk—(unintelligible) (Recording breaking up.) –houses there.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, they did?
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Ok.
RALPH: Yeah. And, there was an old (unintelligible) man taking care of them. Yeah. And then, we used to go down there and go bathing. Put your shoes on your shoulder. Tie the shoestrings together.
INTERVIEWER: Uh huh. That’s neat. Um, did you, did you do any crabbing or fishing or anything down there?
RALPH: I, I didn’t because if you wanted to get the big fish, you had to go in a boat and go out there—I didn’t (unintelligible) fish.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. (Unintelligible) um, now, back to the steamboat. Did you ever go on the steamboat that came down here?
RALPH: I was, I was on it once in this (unintelligible)—that boat (unintelligible) like once a year. See, in the summertime, it would run an excursion. When it came in here on a Saturday, laid over until Monday. (unintelligible) Same way when it came in on a Wednesday and laid over night. (unintelligible) layover. And, the help was from Snow Hill.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! I didn’t realize that!
RALPH: Because, see, when they came in here—they were home—for Sunday. They came in, uh, around 3:00 on a Saturday—and they were laid over until 6:00 Monday morning.
INTERVIEWER: Monday morning. Ok.
RALPH: See, they were home on weekends. The captain lived in this corner house right, right in front of this white house. (unintelligible) Street, there. Captain (unintelligible)—and, like I tell you, that once a year, on a Saturday, that boat would come in and they were on an excursion through the mouth of the river. Just a boat (unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Would it really?
RALPH: And, that’s how I was on it—just for that, that boat ride—to the mouth of the Pocomoke River.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! I’ll bet that was fun! Wasn’t it?
RALPH: Yeah. It was (unintelligible) it was at night because they didn’t get in there until 3:00—in the afternoon.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Well, did a lot of the townspeople go on that excursion?
RALPH: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. (Unintelligible) on that excursion. But, in the meantime, there was two floors. It was two floors. The first floor was for (unintelligible) and (unintelligible). They hauled a lot of (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: They did?
RALPH: Oh, yes. It was a big boat. You been in there, you would think you was in a house. Oh, yes. It was no little boat. And, you’d think you were right in the house or a hotel. The second floor was all for people. And, the first floor was for freight. The farmers sent their wheat and their potatoes and everything—to Baltimore.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Ok. Now, I think I understand. To send stuff to Phila—(Recording cut out)—same.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: You sent it to Baltimore, you sent it on the boat.
RALPH: Boat.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Good.
RALPH: And, the store received the order of groceries (Recording cut out) (unintelligible) what we called (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: That’s a big (unintelligible).
RALPH: And, (unintelligible) unload, too. (Unintelligible)—it would take a long while to unload that (unintelligible) when it come in because it was all kinds of…See, at that time, the wooden boxes, groceries, and everything—was nailed up. See, (unintelligible) for it.
INTERVIEWER: Right. All right. Now, when the steamboat came in the, um, where you worked, the lumber factory was down, right down the river, there. Was a steamboat between it and the electric company?
RALPH: Oh, yes. Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. It (unintelligible)—
RALPH: Yeah. (Unintelligible) It wasn’t nowhere near the bridge.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, it wasn’t?
RALPH: No. It was up this end.
INTERVIEWER: Oh. I didn’t know that.
RALPH: You know where the firehouse is now?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
RALPH: Firehouse? Right straight down that street was the (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Oh. I, I had no idea. I was putting it up by the bridge.
RALPH: No. No.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, good.
RALPH: No. They, they come in, and they turned around before—before the dock. It come, come up close to the water. The guy had a small rope—see. And, he had to tie it to the big rope—see. And, he’d throw that rope over on the dock. (unintelligible) name was Charles Timmons. And (unintelligible)—the, the wharf (unintelligible). Well, he’d take that big, that little rope and pull it in. And, of course, the big rope was tied on the end. And then, they had a great big piling there. And, he’d throw that loop over the piling. And then, the boat would tighten up on that. And that rope would hold that boat was that big around.
INTERVIEWER: My! That big around?
RALPH: It would hold in that boat, until he turned round—
INTERVIEWER: All right. He pivoted (unintelligible).
RALPH: He (unintelligible). Yeah. (Unintelligible)—backed in. See, the front was nothing on that. (unintelligible) going (unintelligible)—and, and that, that, that turned him right around—and put him right in place.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) because it’s not much room in the river there.
RALPH: Can take a long while to dock.
INTERVIEWER: I bet it would.
RALPH: See, (unintelligible) sometimes he, he would dock according on the tide running. See, he had to work with it (unintelligible)— I was in everything (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Yes. (LAUGHING) Oh, goodness.
RALPH: I didn’t miss nothing.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Now, was the bridge there at that time?
RALPH: Oh, yes. The bridge was there. It was there, but, not the one that’s there now.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Right. I know it’s not that one.
RALPH: (unintelligible). Boy, every night, a big gang of the boys would walk on the bridge—(unintelligible) dive off the bridge.
INTERVIEWER: What? Oh, my!
RALPH: We had a swim every night working in the mill all day. (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my! Goodness! Um, now, did, um, boats with sails on them—
RALPH: Huh?
INTERVIEWER: Did, uh, schooners, or boats with sails on it, did they still come up to Snow Hill, then?
RALPH: No.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Did not.
RALPH: They, they had (unintelligible). There was one tied up to the wharf. A big sailboat (unintelligible)—hauling lumber in there. (unintelligible) just piled it up on the outside wharf where it was out of the way—and (unintelligible) there. But, (unintelligible) for years. (unintelligible), I guess, when it got too rotten, they just put something to it and pulled it out—pulled a piece out at a time. It isn’t there, anymore. ‘Cause, I looked— I looked (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Checking that out. Oh, goodness! The, um…Did you go to school here?
RALPH: Right here.
INTERVIEWER: Right…That’s what I was just getting ready to say. It is right here. Isn’t it?
RALPH: But, I didn’t get much schooling.
INTERVIEWER: You didn’t. No. ‘Cause you were working.
RALPH: (unintelligible) a boy. My father was a carpenter and he was away all the time and he’d take a boy. He don’t like school. Every (chance) he’d get in, he’d (fail). (unintelligible) when you got nobody to take care of you. (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Um, the, uh…My! There’s so much you told me. I’m trying to think of something, something that…I don’t think you have left anything out. Let’s see.
RALPH: Well, you want to know about the hanging?
INTERVIEWER: Oh, yes! I forgot all about it. Just like that, I forgot it. Ok.
RALPH: I’ve seen two hung.
INTERVIEWER: You did?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Now, where, where were they hung?
RALPH: Uh, at the courthouse. You know where that is?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I know where that is.
RALPH: Is it still there?
INTERVIEWER: No. They bulldozed it down about four years ago and there’s a big pile of rubble. That’s all that’s left. But, I’ve got some pictures of it.
RALPH: Well, then, they went to the court, out to the courthouse—and cut some trees down in the woods. Small trees. (unintelligible). And, they built the gallows there. Did you ever see the gallows in the cowboys?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I’ve seen them there.
RALPH: Like the same thing. (LAUGHING) And the gallows there. And, the day they were gonna have the hanging, ever, everybody stopped and went to the hanging. (Unintelligible)—shut down the mill—for the hanging.
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that something?
RALPH: (unintelligible) hanged. And, it’s the best thing for the young people you ever seen—to learn some sense. If they had it today, they’d know something.
INTERVIEWER: That might be. Um, now, were the people (tried)? Did they have the trial in Snow Hill?
RALPH: Yes. Yes. Well, then, I’ll tell you…Now, these were two colored people—which each had killed their wives. It wasn’t—(unintelligible) with white people. (unintelligible) amongst themselves. And, (unintelligible) the way it started—on the day of the hanging—the day of the hanging, they put the casket in the undertaker’s wagon. They backed that up against the (unintelligible) door. The man was (unintelligible) in the jail with a new suit and all. And, they backed that up against the door and they put him in the undertaker’s wagon, sitting on his casket.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my Lord!
RALPH: And, they had all these guards—all these guards and everything. And, that’s the way he was taken. And then, they would take him to the gallows (unintelligible). And, there was a stairway that led up—like (unintelligible) went up the stairway—and then, (unintelligible) bench. And, he sat on the bench. And, that rope up there was six or seven feet. And, on the floor, they had a (unintelligible) door. See, it had sand weights on it. And, there was a rope that was on hinges. See, and there was a rope come across that held that door. The weight of a man. See, come across. And, it had a square block about ten or twelve inches square. And, that rope come right (unintelligible) across that block. And, the sheriff, he got off of the bench. He walked (unintelligible) in one hack with a hatchet—and hit that rope, and, boy! That fella disappeared and go—right through the hole. Yeah. And, they weren’t allowed no pictures.
INTERVIEWER: That’s good.
RALPH: And, they had guards with guns all around the place. All around the place. No pictures. And, uh—they asked him did he have (unintelligible), they asked him did he have anything to say. Now, the first thing they do, they take and they strapped his legs—all together. (Unintelligible) his hands (unintelligible) around his sides—strapped. Then, they taken a, a, like a bag—(unintelligible) black cloth. And, in the bottom of the bag, see, it had a hole. And, they pulled that down right over his head. See, where the rope come out. See, and, it went down to his ankles. And, there was a drawstring, and they tied it—tight around his ankles. See, and when he went down to “death hole”—the sheriff kept (unintelligible) down the steps and disappeared. He never stopped, looked, or nothing. Once, he (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: He was gone.
RALPH: (unintelligible)—see. And, his casket was sitting there (unintelligible). I don’t know—The doctor come over—(unintelligible) his watch and he timed it. I’ve seen everything (unintelligible) and he, and then, he come out from (unintelligible)—and taken him down. And, they take him, the bag off him, rope—off his neck, after he—was pronounced dead by the doctor. He was laid out in the casket and the (unintelligible) come around to look at him. Yeah. Now, that’s done—the young people good. That’s what they ought to do today. You wouldn’t see this stuff.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. And, people from town went out to see this.
RALPH: Oh, yes!
INTERVIEWER: It was a holiday?
RALPH: Yeah. (unintelligible) the hanging. (LAUGHING) I’ve seen two of them. And, that’s a pretty good walk from here out there. Oh, yeah. (Unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Oh! That’s a walk!
RALPH: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
RALPH: (unintelligible) give you a ride. (LAUGHING) Because, there weren’t many riding, you know. (Unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Right. Right. Did, now, did any, did either of the men have any last words to say?
RALPH: Yeah. The, uh, the last words he said—they asked him if he anything to say. He said, “Yes.” He said, “I want to give the young people good advice.” He said, “Whiskey brought me here.” And for the young people, to stay away from whiskey. (Unintelligible) be brought at the same place.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. My, that was, that was really something!
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Boy! Well, my last words wouldn’t have been that. Gosh. Ok.
RALPH: Now, now we got (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I’m glad. (LAUGHING) Yeah. Um, were there, um…Ok. You said there was a sheriff.
RALPH: Oh, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Was, were there other policemen or did the sheriff take care of all the legal—
RALPH: Why—
INTERVIEWER: --things. His deputies, or—
RALPH: Why, what? At the hanging?
INTERVIEWER: No. Just for general. Did Snow Hill have a police department or anything?
RALPH: Yeah. Sure.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, they did?
RALPH: Sure. But, only one police. And, Saturday afternoon, Mr. White.
INTERVIEWER: Mr. White?
RALPH: Yeah. Saturday afternoon, only. Any other time, people taking care of themselves.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! I didn’t know that. That’s interesting. Did he, did he have a uniform and everything?
RALPH: Oh, yeah. He had a badge.
INTERVIEWER: Had a badge. Right?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: That’s all you need.
RALPH: He had a badge.
INTERVIEWER: And, Uh, why Saturday afternoon?
RALPH: Because the farmers all came in (unintelligible) do their shopping. This town—full of people. Now, you don’t see nobody out there. But, uh, in the olden days—Friday and Saturday, that was jammed up there.
INTERVIEWER: It was?
RALPH: Yeah. See, the farmers came in—they come in and brought their eggs. Big baskets of eggs. And, that was money. And, they swap the eggs for—groceries.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Oh, that’s good!
RALPH: That’s how they done business.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Who, um, where was, what grocery store—
RALPH: Huh?
INTERVIEWER: What grocery store was here? Do you remember who had the grocery store? Or, were there several?
RALPH: Yes. Mr. Price, the man that lived right there. His, his father. Not him.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! Ok. His father.
RALPH: His father died, you know. (Unintelligible) call it. He was an old man when he died. But, uh, Mr. Price was the owner of the grocery store.
INTERVIEWER: Of the grocery store. Now, where was the grocery store?
RALPH: Well, the grocery store was over by…You know where the card store is there now?
INTERVIEWER: Yeah.
RALPH: About in that location.
INTERVIEWER: Ok.
RALPH: Yeah. And, there was a doctor next door—to the grocery store. Dr. Aydolette.
INTERVIEWER: All right. And, he lived—
RALPH: He lived on—same street as the courthouse is.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Where it’s a yellow house, now?
RALPH: It’s the second door from the corner.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Second from the corner. Right. He did that.
RALPH: And, and then, he had a son. Nicest fella you’ll want to see. Doctor—Aydolette had a son, and he was around my age—and, when he got done school here, his father, being a doctor, forced him to go to college. See, and, uh, he didn’t want to go. And, he cut his throat and commit suicide. Yeah. (unintelligible) tombstone at the graveside. Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Did that. Ok. So, there was a grocery store and a doctor.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. What—
RALPH: And then, there was, and then, there was a clothing store. Uh, Mr. Goodman was down on the corner. Not, not (unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Not where he is.
RALPH: No. Down at the corner. I think…(unintelligible) have a hard time (unintelligible)—That was Goodman’s Store. (Unintelligible)— And, uh, I bought a pair of pants there when I was a kid. Dollar and a quarter.
INTERVIEWER: Did you really?
RALPH: And, uh, when I went to the city—well, I forgot all about paying the man. And, I come back about forty years later, I went in there, and I paid the sum. (unintelligible) so, you know what he said? He said, “I’ll donate this.” He said, “I’ll never keep this money. I’m going to donate it to somebody.”
INTERVIEWER: (LAUGHING) Oh, that’s good! That’s interesting! Neat. Um, now, did he just, did he sell women’s clothing and men’s clothing?
RALPH: No. Just men.
INTERVIEWER: Just men.
RALPH: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Ok.
RALPH: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Um, was there a women’s clothing store or did women make theirs?
RALPH: Now, I don’t remember about women—
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
RALPH: There was a women’s hat store.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, there was?
RALPH: Mrs. Townson.
INTERVIEWER: Did that. Um…were—
RALPH: Now, there was, there was stores all along there. But, uh…Now, Mr. Collins was on the corner. He has a, he had a combination store. He was, if I’m not mistaken, he sold certain groceries. And, he had clothing—shoes—see—Mr. Collins did. And, he was on the corner.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Now, was the hotel there?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Now, wasn’t there a, a pool hall, or something, under the hotel?
RALPH: Not in my time.
INTERVIEWER: Not in your time. All right.
RALPH: Not in my time—
INTERVIEWER: I guess it was later.
RALPH: (unintelligible) under (unintelligible) I’ll tell you what they had in my time—in that hotel. Slot machines. Gambling.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! Did they really?
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! I didn’t know that! I didn’t! I have never heard that.
RALPH: They, they had two hotels. And, the other hotel gambled, too. You know where the library is?
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
RALPH: Well, right there in that corner. Right in front of the Post Office. (Unintelligible)—was a hotel.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! What was the name of…Do you remember the name of it?
RALPH: No, but—
INTERVIEWER: Somebody did ask me about that the other day and I just told them I have never heard of it.
RALPH: Yes. Yes. There was (unintelligible)— And, it was two hotels
INTERVIEWER: All right. The Purnell or the “Pur-nell”—was on the corner up here.
RALPH: And, uh…The fella that run that hotel…What was his name? He married the Lewis…The brickyard man’s daughter. (Unintelligible)—this hotel. And when, and, uh, you know, he left Snow Hill and went to Philadelphia. You know, I run into him on in Philadelphia. I seen him pert near every day.He worked for the same company I did. And, I used to run into him all the time. He was the hotel man here. And, he—went to college in Philadelphia.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. It’s a small world. Isn’t it? It really is.
RALPH: Oh, yeah. And, there was a fella, lived right down here on this corner house with the name of Townsend. I run into him one day in Philadelphia. And, uh, see, he got off at the paint (unintelligible) is owned by DuPont—see. And, I worked a couple doors below that. (unintelligible) depot. And, that’s how I come in contact with him. I think he must have worked for DuPont because he went into that building.
INTERVIEWER: Might have. Now, with the slot machines—
RALPH: Huh?
INTERVIEWER: Slot machines and gambling and the hotel. I want to hear more about that. Um—
RALPH: (unintelligible) make big money with slot machines. (Unintelligible) both hotels. (unintelligible) more people would play them. See, you’d drop a nickel or dime in—and—the way we used to do it, we’d get a lot of boys together and get a nickel somewhere—and, we’d all put the nickel in on the same number. (unintelligible) big pot. You go the big pot—(unintelligible) divide it up.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, that’s neat. Did you ever get it?
RALPH: No. Not in my time. But, I hit it one time. I dropped the money in and the double the money would come out. All the time. (Unintelligible) drop them, kept them until the machine got empty, and there weren’t no money left.
(LAUGHING)
INTERVIEWER: Boy! That…You had a good thing going. Oh, dear!
RALPH: Oh, yes. They had slot machines.
INTERVIEWER: That’s neat. Now—
RALPH: Same way in Ocean City, they had them right on the boardwalk.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Right. I know that. They had them when I was young. I used to play them.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: You know, I don’t think that was quite legal then, but…But—
RALPH: (unintelligible) lifetime.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Were, now, in the, in the—
RALPH: Now, I’ll tell you—(unintelligible) I was in those saloons. It was either in the saloons—
INTERVIEWER: That’s what I was going to ask, where they were.
RALPH: --they were in, direct in the saloons—and, I was in there and played them and everything. And, I went to the (unintelligible) and I never tasted any kind of drink in my life. I never tasted whiskey, wine—nothing in my whole career. I was turned loose when I was a kid. That’s pretty (unintelligible) everything. (unintelligible) reason I (unintelligible) so long is because, uh, I wanted to do right—
INTERVIEWER: I’m sure. Yes, indeed. And, you worked hard.
RALPH: (unintelligible) had to because I had no one to take care of me.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Good. Goodness. That’s good. Now, in this saloon, in the hotels, now, did women go in these saloons at all?
RALPH: No.
INTERVIEWER: No. Ok.
RALPH: No. But, I’ll tell you what they did have. They had a partition for the bartender because both of them (unintelligible) one room to the other and that, that partition, the whites went in this door and the colored went in that door.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, (unintelligible).
RALPH: (unintelligible) wasn’t allowed, the colored wasn’t allowed—to go in with the white people. But, it was the same (unintelligible) on the partition—(unintelligible) acting like a door there. See, they go from one room to the other. (unintelligible) Same way of the trains, here. You weren’t allowed to, they weren’t allowed to ride (unintelligible). Did you know about that?
INTERVIEWER: I hadn’t thought about that. No. I really (unintelligible).
RALPH: (unintelligible) train. Until they got out of the, of the (unintelligible) signs in the car “white” or “colored.” The colored went where they belonged—and then, the whites went where they belonged. And then, when they got over the line of Maryland into Delaware—they’d take the signs down. See, it was a different state.
INTERVIEWER: All right. A different state.
RALPH: But, just Maryland had that law.
INTERVIEWER: I didn’t know that.
RALPH: See—(unintelligible) passed over the line, all of the signs come down.
INTERVIEWER: All right. I didn’t know that, either. Boy! You are just a source of information! This is neat! Um, let me see…(unintelligible) here (unintelligible). Ok. Now, you said that you didn’t fish at Public Landing.
RALPH: No.
INTERVIEWER: But, did you fish the river?
RALPH: I fished in the river. Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. What did you, what did you catch?
RALPH: Shad.
INTERVIEWER: Shad. Oh. Oh…Ok. Did you net fish?
RALPH: Yeah. (Unintelligible) nets. Staked from one side of the river to the other. Blocked the whole river off. Had to go in. If there was any around. I, I caught as high as thirty-two at night. (Unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Really? Oh, my! Now, would you sell them?
RALPH: Yeah. I sold them at the fish market—ten cents apiece.
INTERVIEWER: My! Well, that’s not bad.
RALPH: (unintelligible) Now, it cost you a dollar, I guess.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, it would, indeed. Um, now, where was the fish market?
RALPH: It was in the location of, just below the, uh, Post Office is, today. There was a little wooden shack there.
INTERVIEWER: All right. I did that. Um, well, when you went out fishing like this, you went out at night. Right?
RALPH: Yeah. We went out (unintelligible) you had to get your nets in just as the sun went down. See, you couldn’t catch them in the daytime. Only night works. We had a, there was a little (unintelligible) fish, we went, we went…I don’t know what you call it. I guess up the river—(unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Towards Pocomoke?
RALPH: Towards Pocomoke. And, it would take us about a half hour in a row boat to go.
INTERVIEWER: Oh. A row boat.
RALPH: Yeah. And, uh, there was a little island there—where we fished. And, it was only about as big as this pile of ground here. And—we had little bungalows over there. We had a bed and we had a cook stove and all—and fish in our nets. You had to fish every hour—to pull them up. You pulled it up to get your fish out. If you didn’t, the eels would get in (unintelligible), the eels would get in and eat (unintelligible). And then, you couldn’t sell them. You couldn’t sell it.
INTERVIEWER: Eww!
RALPH: The eels.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
RALPH: And then, and then, at the end of the stake, we had a trap made. See, you had to protect your nets. And, uh, we had a trap made. We used to catch turtles. So, we’d make this great big box, and made (unintelligible) the, the, (unintelligible) like (unintelligible)— They could go in and then—(unintelligible)—they couldn’t get out. Well, then, we’d hang a bunch of fish up in there—and, he’d go in for the fish—and then, he couldn’t get back. And, we used to maybe get five to six big turtles in a night. Because, if you didn’t do that, they’d get into your nets and (unintelligible)—(unintelligible) and put holes in them. See, (unintelligible) thread. And, they’d pull holes in them. We had to set a trap to get rid of them. Keep from hurting your (sin), your nets.
INTERVIEWER: Well, could you do anything with the turtles?
RALPH: Well, sell them to the fish market—
INTERVIEWER: Sell them, too.
RALPH: --twenty-five cents.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! That is, made more off of them than you did off the fish. Goodness! Um, well, I didn’t realize there were eels up in the river.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) Oh, my!
RALPH: Oh, yes. (Unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that something? I didn’t know that. Ok. Um—
RALPH: Yeah. (Unintelligible) twentieth of March. Twentieth of March.
INTERVIEWER: So, you just do it for that period of time?
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: And then, do that.
RALPH: Charlie Timmons, him and I were buddies (unintelligible) fishing—
INTERVIEWER: Were you?
RALPH: --he changed. He belonged to the steamboat (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Ok. All right. I remember you said his name. Now, (unintelligible)—
RALPH: Do you know Charlie Timmons?
INTERVIEWER: I know a man named Charlie Timmons now, but he’s much younger. Isn’t he?
RALPH: Oh, I don’t think he’d be no relation to him because—the real Charlie (unintelligible)—he became a crook Was he a bad crook!
(RECORDING BREAKING UP)
Unknown Speaker: A visitor traveling through Worcester County is greeted by a variety of sights.
INTERVIEWER: Ok.
Unknown Male: He also had a (unintelligible). Once in a while, he would (unintelligible) some of those (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Ok.
RALPH: Yes.
Unknown Male: (unintelligible), right? I was wondering, too, what the pay was at the brickyard and where you lived after your father died.
INTERVIEWER: Right.
RALPH: Why, I lived in…What’s that? Federal Street? I lived with my sister. Up there. Right in front of the cemetery.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. All right. Ok. Who lives there now?
RALPH: I don’t know—
INTERVIEWER: I don’t know.
RALPH: (unintelligible) there now.
INTERVIEWER: I was trying to think.
RALPH: See, there’s an apartment house on the corner. And—that little house sits there by itself. Right in front of the cemetery--painted white.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Ok. That’s where you lived, then. Um…Well, would…This time of year, we’re getting into mosquito time. Were there mosquitoes back then a problem?
RALPH: Oh, yeah—they were terrible. And, flies was awful. Flies and mosquitoes.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! All right. You had dirt roads.
RALPH: Always. You had dirt roads when I left. I left in 1903. There wasn’t nothing but dirt roads in Snow Hill.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Did, um…Was there an orchard out Martin Street, or something, when you were young?
RALPH: A orchard?
INTERVIEWER: An orchard?
RALPH: Oh! Boy! Did I eat apples there! (Unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: (LAUGHING) I just remembered that!
RALPH: Did I eat apples there! The fella used to live right across the street. That big orchard. What street would that be? Washington Avenue?
INTERVIEWER: Washington Street. Yeah.
RALPH: And, and, uh, he lived right across from the orchard.(unintelligible) Street. And, he had a little front porch there. And, we boys used to go out there and get on that front porch—(unintelligible) we knew every tree in the orchard and the best apple that was in the orchard. We’d go over, we never disturbed the trees. We’d just pull off what we wanted to eat. We never disturbed them. And, we’d go on the porch and we’d sit there and we’d have a nice time chewing—(unintelligible), eating apples. (LAUGHING)
INTERVIEWER: That’s neat. No. But, (unintelligible)—
RALPH: (unintelligible) anything in Snow Hill where I didn’t know. (LAUGHING) I, I was on the go a lot of the time.
INTERVIEWER: Well, I bet you were. Uh, now…Now, you said you lived with your sister.
RALPH: Yeah. I lived with her when I went to Philadelphia. I went to Philadelphia in 1903. And, I—practically been there ever since. I have five children. I have five children. I have, I have one in California. She’s been there about fifty years. California. And, the second one lives in Delaware County. And, the third one is a boy. See, I’ve got four girls and a boy. And, the boy—he just retired.
INTERVIEWER: He did?
RALPH: Yeah. He was—sixty-eight. Six months ago, he dropped dead looking at the television.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my word!
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: After retiring.
RALPH: He lived in Colorado. He was in the antique business. Yeah. He was—he became wealthy. Yeah. And, uh, I have one, I have one daughter lives in Delaware County. She’s right close to the home where I live. (Unintelligible)—when she comes from work—she’s still working. When she comes from work—she stops in to home to see me—a couple times a week. And, she’s a, and, you know, all the women, always asking me, “When’s your daughter coming?”
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that (unintelligible).
RALPH: They get a kick out of it.
INTERVIEWER: I’m sure they do.
RALPH: (unintelligible) she (unintelligible). She keeps them laughing. And, and, and, she (teases) the old ladies, you know. And, they always ask me, “When’s your daughter coming in?” “We love to hear her, you know.” Yeah. And, uh, she’s got a wonderful job. Do you know what she does? She’s a secretary for five doctors. She handles five doctors—in a hospital. But, she has nothing to do with the patients. She just takes care of their money and their welfare.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Well, she, she has a responsible job, then.
RALPH: And, maybe they don’t like her, too. If it snows, they won’t allow her to come to work. No. They should be in a (unintelligible)— They don’t want to lose her.
INTERVIEWER: That’s a good way. (Unintelligible)—
RALPH: She’s sixty-two. My baby’s fifty-five.
INTERVIEWER: Your baby is fifty-five. My!
RALPH: And, and, and, uh, so—the baby lives in Colorado. She’s got a big restaurant out there. She’s doing—(unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Goodness. Now, do you ever, do you go to see them at all? Have you—
RALPH: I (unintelligible). I’ve never been to Colorado.
INTERVIEWER: Your talking about trains reminded me, um, about trains. Did you ever take the passenger train in Snow Hill?
RALPH: Here? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I used to go to Ocean City. I’d get off at—had to get off at Berlin and—change. (unintelligible) change in Berlin and was coming from Salisbury. That was the change point.
INTERVIEWER: Right. All right. Um, what do you remember about Ocean City when you went down? Anything in particular? Do you remember?
RALPH: No. Because, I was never there. Only just for the day. See, you didn’t see much when you’re kids. You don’t bother with much. (unintelligible) on the boardwalk, or something like that—see. In those days, we were gambling, you know. Kids would look at the gambling machines.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. (LAUGHING) Oh, dear! Um. Ok. That’s neat.
RALPH: Well, you see, we boys—we didn’t have much to gamble with because—with ten cents an hour—you didn’t have much—
INTERVIEWER: Right. You didn’t have much money. Now, did you go down to Franklin City?
RALPH: Oh! I lived down there!
INTERVIEWER: Oh, you did?
RALPH: I had an uncle that had a store there in Franklin City. My mother’s brother. And, he had a grocery store and a candy store. And, when I hit Ocean City, that’s the first place I went in. And, boy! He’d give a bag and fill it right up—I’d come out with a big bag of candy. I thought I was in heaven!
INTERVIEWER: Yes. Oh! I’ll bet so! Um, at Franklin City, besides the candy, what, what did you do?
RALPH: I didn’t do anything. My sister lived at Greenback. That’s the next—Right there. And, she lived at the first house right there at the railroad. And, uh, of course, in that period, all the men worked in the bay…Seafood. There was nothing else for them to do. The girls never had nothing to do. There was no way, transportation, to get out. Only a train—(unintelligible) working. Because, (unintelligible) more and it would cost more than you make.
INTERVIEWER: Right. How much did it cost? Do you remember? On the train? Like to go from Snow Hill to Franklin City?
RALPH: To go to Franklin City? I think it was twenty-five cents.(unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: That’s right. That was right much.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. Oh! That’s good!
RALPH: Yeah. I had a brother that lived there for a while, but not very long. Yeah. He came back to Snow Hill. Come back to Snow Hill and got killed.
INTERVIEWER: My dear! (Unintelligible)—
RALPH: He was a carpenter. Fell off the roof of a house and he was killed. (unintelligible) sister in Franklin City that’s eleven barrels of crabs a day, each.
INTERVIEWER: Goodness! Ok. Mr. Ferrell was saying that you were talking about the fishermen at Franklin City catching crabs.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: That they, there were a lot of crabs there, evidently.
RALPH: Yeah. He, my brother-in-law—he used to catch eleven barrel a day. Crabs. And, those barrels are big.
INTERVIEWER: A…barrels are big. Yes!
RALPH: Yeah. Eleven barrels.
INTERVIEWER: Eleven barrels. Now, did they ship them out?
RALPH: Yeah. Sure. See, they, they went out and caught this stuff into the dock there. And, there was a commission agent there (unintelligible) to buy it. He’d, he’d buy on that. And then, there was a train, a special train—left there with the seafood—and brought it to Philadelphia.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Right straight through.
RALPH: See, they done business with Philadelphia. Then, my, my, my brother-in-law, he, uh, I asked him what he got a hundred for clams. Five cents—a hundred. Five cents a hundred.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my dear! Isn’t that something? (Unintelligible)
RALPH: The water was full of stuff at that period—not like it is today.
INTERVIEWER: No. It isn’t like today. Now, did they ice down that seafood? Did they use ice on the seafood to keep it cold?
RALPH: No.
INTERVIEWER: In the trains?
RALPH: No. I tell you, because it was shipped right away, and it only take them five hours to get in to the dock of Philadelphia—
INTERVIEWER: Oh, really? Five hours from Franklin City to Philadelphia?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: All right. I had no idea how long that would take.
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Well, that’s, that’s fast enough, then.
RALPH: Sure. Because it was express. See, not freight. (unintelligible) could not send that but freight (unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Right. That’s what I was thinking. (Unintelligible)—
RALPH: --(unintelligible) because you had to come (right) direct. And, uh, the oysters there, when they caught them, they brought them to the shore there. And, uh, they had big, uh, posts drove down—at the platform, see. And, they had those, like, uh, two would be over there, like them flower boxes—on the posts. And then, they’d be over here. And, they had what they called “floats”— They had a great big thing made with a square wood. And then, it was slats. The slats come up about that high. See, and they filled that up with oysters—when they were going to ship—they bring them in from the beds. See, when they catch oysters, they put them in a bed. They don’t bring them ashore. And, they grow. See, they get bigger. And, uh, when they’re ready, they, they, they can go out and get them and bring (unintelligible) and put them into this, this tray—(unintelligible) water. And then, they have ropes, comes up and it comes around a pole, and they have a crank and they wind them cranks—and, they bring that up out of the water when they’re going to ship. And then, they get into that with gum boots—the oysters, and take them our big coal shovels, and throw them up on the platform. And then, they barrel them right there, right out in the water. Go into the barrel, and then, the train takes them away.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Well, they were fresh, then.
RALPH: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Boy!
RALPH: That’s the way they used to do it.
INTERVIEWER: That is something!
RALPH: ‘Course, I was a kid, I was in there. I didn’t miss (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Oh! This is great!
RALPH: And, that was a great time for me when I went to Franklin City, because I was all set for the candy.
INTERVIEWER: I’ll bet so! Oh, my!
RALPH: And then, after things went on to (unintelligible) there, my uncle, he left Franklin City—and he came to Snow Hill, and he was, uh, he was a clerk in Hargis’s store. Ever hear, you know—where Hargis’s store— Well, he was a clerk there—until he died.
INTERVIEWER: My! That was a change. Wasn’t it?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: To go from the water to being a clerk. That would be. Huh.
RALPH: So, I don’t know where we’re at, now…Who is this for?
INTERVIEWER: This (unintelligible)
RALPH: (unintelligible) good, because the streets weren’t paved. Wasn’t paved. Oh! We used to have an awful time with bicycle-riding in Snow Hill. (unintelligible) the pavement. You couldn’t ride in the street ‘cause it was too rough. Because the wagons coming in, you know—the cars, and everything. And, uh, great big ruts and holes and bumps. (unintelligible)
Male: That’s the dirt bicycle trail wasn’t it?
RALPH: Huh?
Male: There was just a dirt bicycle trail.
RALPH: Yeah.
Male: Just a (unintelligible)—
RALPH: (unintelligible), see. It went through the woods—(unintelligible) bicycle ride. They didn’t stop. But, it was always beautiful. Never (unintelligible) little bridges we used to cross (unintelligible).
Male: (unintelligible) loved those.
RALPH: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Oh! Wouldn’t that be neat? Yeah! Oh, that’s neat!
Male: How much, how much did you make per hour at the brickyard?
RALPH: At the brickyard? A dollar.
Male: You made a dollar?
RALPH: I made a dollar per twenty-five hundred bricks.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. That was your day’s work.
RALPH: That was your (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Your day’s work. Ok. Right. Yeah. That’s right. You were saying that. Um, now, where, in—
RALPH: Now, that was big money—(unintelligible) money, then.
Male: Well, why did you leave the brickyard to work at the mill?
RALPH: Because, the brickyard was a summer job. (unintelligible) good weather. When the fall come—didn’t open no more ‘til the good weather in the spring. I had to work hard because the bricks were outside. And (unintelligible).
Male: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Right. And, if you had to have—
RALPH: --(unintelligible) heated them.
INTERVIEWER: And, if you had a rainy spell, you didn’t work.
RALPH: Didn’t work.
INTERVIEWER: Right. Ok. That was that. Where was—
RALPH: And, and you come out daybreak, soon as the daybreak, you have to put the first brick down. Because you want to get that twenty-five hundred done before the sun—(unintelligible). So, we were done around noon. (unintelligible) we started. I used to (unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Where was the, the, um—
RALPH: I used to get up around 4:00 or 3:00.
INTERVIEWER: Oh, my! And, you, and, you had to get yourself up, too.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Yes. (Unintelligible)
Male: Did you have an alarm clock?
RALPH: Yeah. Yeah. I had an alarm clock.
INTERVIEWER: Yeah. I’d need it.
RALPH: I’d never got up without that alarm.
Male: Ok. Where was Hargis—
(RECORDING CUT OUT)
RALPH: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Right. It didn’t (unintelligible)—
RALPH: (unintelligible) all them calicos—
INTERVIEWER: Calicos and yard goods.
RALPH: --(unintelligible) big bolts. The women’s stuff. All kinds of curtains—and stuff like that. But, I think they had some groceries—at the one end. It was separate, you know.
INTERVIEWER: Uh, out at the brickyard, where was the kiln? If the pond was here—
RALPH: Huh?
INTERVIEWER: Out at the brickyard, where was the kiln?
RALPH: Well, you see, you take the brickyard, (unintelligible) just this porch. You say, this is where you make the bricks. It was nice and smooth. See. Well, at the end of this yard, over there—was the kiln.
INTERVIEWER: All right. So, it was, it was quite a big distance away.
RALPH: Yeah. And, right alongside of the yard, say where the grass is there—that was a shed. It was as long as the yard—we worked on. And, that’s where you…You made the bricks tomorrow, today, you’ve taken that brick in to-tomorrow, see. (Unintelligible) And, they give you every day, so many to take in. And, uh, that was divided in three parts because of three men doing it. Takes three men—(unintelligible) twenty-five hundred. See. And then, you had the sift sand.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! I guess you did. Didn’t you?
RALPH: (unintelligible) I had to sift the sand for the next day. You have to have sand for that. The sand comes from Havre De Grace.
INTERVIEWER: It did?
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Oh! And, it came by train.
RALPH: And, it was light brown. See. And, when, when you came back with the mold, you throw it into a sandbox—like (unintelligible)—and, uh, that was full of sand. It was like flower (unintelligible)— See, you threw it in there, and the, and the man that made the brick would take that and wiggle it around—to get it inside of that iron mold—all sandy. And then, he would put the dough in there— And then, he’d take the trowel that was in the water box—he’d bring that across his hands and that would make it smooth—across the top.
INTERVIEWER: Do that. Now, where did—
RALPH: --and, the waste, he’d throw back in the mud again.
INTERVIEWER: All right. Where did they get the, the dough for the brick? Out of the water hole?
RALPH: Right out of the ground. Right there.
INTERVIEWER: Right there.
RALPH: Right alongside where you work, it went down into the ground. And they, and they had a runway in. They dig about, uh, four quart of the dirt off. That’s solid clay (unintelligible). Keep on digging (unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: I didn’t know that.
RALPH: See, it was horses them days. The old horse and wagons. You go down a hill—see. The hill was made of dirt. And, they went down and (unintelligible) kept digging. Going down. Going down. (Unintelligible)—when I left, it was about as deep as this house. (Unintelligible)—
INTERVIEWER: Ok. I, I…All right. And, I’d always heard that the water out at the brick kiln was so deep and I couldn’t figure out why it was so deep. Now, I know.
RALPH: Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Because it, that’s where it fill in there.
RALPH: Yeah. That’s where it grows. Keeps running. Yeah. It’s solid clay. And then, they put it in a, they had it in a, well, let’s say like a tub. And, that was waterproof—but it was made of wood. See, just like a tub—in the ground. And, it was about that deep. And, it would take all day to fill that, fill that grinder up. It would take all day to haul that in there. Fill the grinder. And, after you put the clay into that pit— There was water in the middle. And, it had knives. See, he’d pass it through it. And, the pole come up. See, what the knives—-were fastened to. And, it had to be ground. And, the pole come up, and then, there was a right long pole hooked on the top (unintelligible)—come over where the ground is around the tub. See. Now, they had a horse there. And, that pole (unintelligible)—horse hooked to this pole. And, he kept going ALL day, right around. And, that’s what ground it. See, the knives on this post—and, there was a wooden pole, come from that—big pole in the middle. Over to the horse. They hooked the horse to the end of the pole. He just kept going. No driver. Nothing. He knew what to do. And, he’d stay there all day. Just going around. You’d think he’d get drunk. But, there was a big pool, you know. Oh, it was big as this whole yard—and this porch. Great big. And, and, and, I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you how long—(unintelligible) didn’t pay much attention. See, they had two pits. When one got empty—the other one was ready. See, the one we were working on, see, when that was finished—the other one was ready—just move over to the next pit—(unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: Start it up again.
RALPH: Start it up again and refill. See—you’re never out of clay. And then, they had that under a shed. --in case it rained—or anything. You (unintelligible)— When they’d dump that clay in, they had to have so much water to put to it. Yeah. So much water. Then, it had to be ground up, just like you were making bread. The same as bread.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. For heaven sakes!
RALPH: See.
INTERVIEWER: Well, that’s fascinating! It really is.
RALPH: But, the old horse, I used to think he’d get drunk. Watching him walk around.
INTERVIEWER: You’d think, you’d think he’d want to turn around and go the other way, anyway.
RALPH: (unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: No.
RALPH: The horse was good. Now, when I went to Philadelphia, I’ll tell you (unintelligible) there. And, the people often ask me about it. Even in Philadelphia, (unintelligible) is all business, you know. You ever down there? (unintelligible) well, that’s where a lot of big buildings and all different kinds of business along the railroad. The shipments comes in, goes out—(unintelligible) these buildings alone. And, you know what they had in there for them to ship those cars in those buildings? They had a mule train. They hauled in mules. Live mules. (Unintelligible)—(unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: My dear!
RALPH: They had about ten mules, I guess. And, on the end of (unintelligible) single— (unintelligible) single. Then, they had (unintelligible) on the sides. And, on the lead of those mules, they had a horse. And, that horse was just like a circus horse. That horse would do anything that driver would do. That driver had (unintelligible)—he’d take that and he’d crack that whip and that horse would lead those mules and that, and that driver would get on to the back end, and the horse was way up ahead of ten mules (unintelligible).
INTERVIEWER: Yes.
RALPH: See, being single file— He’d get up there on the old freight car and he’d holler, “Whoa, whoa, (unintelligible)!” And, that old horse would take them right where he wanted to go.
INTERVIEWER: Isn’t that something?
RALPH: Nobody leading him or nothing. Of course, the mules had to follow.
INTERVIEWER: Right. (LAUGHING)
RALPH: (unintelligible) mules (unintelligible). They don’t have any mule no more. Now…
END OF INTERVIEW