Mumford, Dorothy (1906-1997) |
Worcester County Library: Local History and Genealogy Collection, Snow Hill Branch, Snow Hill, MD
|
Interviewee: |
Dorothy Mumford (1906-1997) |
| Interviewer: |
Louise Ash |
| Date of interview: |
1988 June 22 |
| Length of interview: |
1 hour, 2 minutes |
| Transcribed by: |
Lisa Baylous |
| Preferred Citation: |
“Name, Oral History Collection, Date of Interview, Worcester County Library, Snow Hill Branch, Snow Hill, Maryland.” |
Topical Terms:
Education
School
Teacher
Worcester County (Md.)—History
Worcester County (Md.)—Social life and customs
Worcester County (Md.)—Women’s History
Corporate Terms:
Worcester County Board of Education
Location Terms:
Ocean City (Md.)
Interview Begin:
INTERVIEWER: Today is Wednesday, June twenty-second, 1988. This is Louise Ash, Coordinator of Community Services for the Worcester County Library, interviewing Dorothy Mumford on Route 707 in West Ocean City. W—would you please stat your name and your age?
DOROTHY: My name is Dot Mumford. And my age? I’m almost 82.
INTERVIEWER: When was your birthday?
DOROTHY: October the ninth. I—
INTERVIEWER: What year were you born?
DOROTHY: I was born in 1906. And I always thought that Fire Prevention Week was because of my birthday. Yeah, because (LAUGHTER) it’s whenever October the ninth comes. And, October the ninth can come on Sunday and it’ll be that following week. Fire Prevention Week will. It can be the tail-end of the week, and it’ll be the days prior to October the ninth. And then, I discovered the cow in Chicago. (LAUGHING) I found out that Mrs. O’Leary had something to do with it, so. Now, it’s not my birthday. I, it is my birthday.
INTERVIEWER: Can you tell me something about your early childhood home? Where, where did you grow up?
DOROTHY: I grew up right here. I’m living in the house that my mom and dad moved in when I was two months old.
INTERVIEWER: Is that right?
DOROTHY: Mm hmm. And, um, so the house is as old as I am.
INTERVIEWER: Hmmm!
DOROTHY: And, it doesn’t look like it looked when my mom and dad moved here. And we live on a five-acre plot of land, which my dad, who then, was a cook in a fish camp in Ocean City. And we had more money then than we do now, because we each had a savings account. We had, um, I guess there was two checking accounts. As an infant, I didn’t have a checking account, yet. (LAUGHTER) But, um. Um, my dad paid $35 an acre for this, um, property.
INTERVIEWER: What do you think it’s worth now?
DOROTHY: I have no idea. Oh, I, I...There’s a friend of mine, um, who turned down $80,000 for a yard which is not as big as my acre front, here. And she turned that down because she wants more money for it. And, yet, she’s living without a washing machine. I can’t understand that!
(LAUGHTER)
INTERVIEWER: (Unintelligible) you tell us, tell us something about growing up? About your father’s work? What you remember about your father? (Unintelligible)
DOROTHY: My dad was, um, a cook in the fish camp.
INTERVIEWER: First of all, excuse me, tell me his name.
DOROTHY: My dad’s name was Ned Gray.
INTERVIEWER: Ned?
DOROTHY: Ned. Gray.
INTERVIEWER: Ned Gray.
DOROTHY: He was, um, a cook in the fish camp at Ocean City. He, he worked for Harry (Ludnum) in the fish camps. And, um, he would ride a bicycle to work because he lived…At that time, there were no automobiles around here. Uh, we did not have a car, um, bridge into Ocean City. We didn’t need one because we didn’t have any cars. People rode bicycles, or they drove, uh, oxen carts. The first taxicab in Ocean City was an oxen-drawn two-wheel wagon that met the (unintelligible) and took luggage over the sand roads because the streets were not built. And, uh, people were coming to Ocean City to, to fish mainly. Or to enjoy the beach and the shore line.
INTERVIEWER: How many hotels were there in Ocean City (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: In the very beginning, there were probably, well, I can remember, um…There was a hotel called The Rhode Island Hotel and it was part of that, um, stuff that was blown around from a ship that was foundered off-sea that gave it its name: Rhode Island. Um, I remember, back then, I remember, um, Congress Hall was a hotel. That was one of the early ones. But, um. Those are the only two I remember. Until, when I began to teach in the early twenties, we had The Atlantic Hotel and The Seaside Hotel. They were both burned down to, um, in the twenties, in, in, um, around December. The holidays.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Tell me, did you have any brothers or sisters?
DOROTHY: No. I was an only child. My mom and dad looked at me and said, “That’s the best we can do! We’re through!” (LAUGHTER) So, that’s it. I always held that against them, too, because, um, I always wanted brothers and sisters. I always wanted a big brother and a little sister. So, I had to marry to get it. (LAUGHTER)
INTERVIEWER: Tell, tell me what you remember about your childhood. How you, how you passed the time when you were not in school. Tell me about school, first then about (unintelligible).
DOROTHY: Well, my first seven years in school were in a country school. Uh, and there were two buildings in this country school system. Um, the first one was decided, it was decided that that one was obsolete (unintelligible). We were not to use it again. So the second one was the Curtis Burgess Store. Became the Curtis Burgess Store. Everyone knows that on 707.
INTERVIEWER: Where was the first school (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: Right down, uh, the corner from my house. Right across the, um, 611, that. Down on the corner on the right. Um, the Cutis Burgess Store is still there.
INTERVIEWER: That was the second --?
DOROTHY: That was the second school.
INTERVIEWER: So, the first school (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: First school. The first school was, um, sold and moved down to, um, the road that goes to Frontier Town. Ah, and it became a, um, a, a storehouse for feed for cattle. But, it has since been bur- been torn down.
INTERVIEWER: Hmm!
DOROTHY: Just this year, I think, since the widening of the road, which is happening down there. Ah, they have torn the school down. I had two teachers. Ah, the first teacher was Miss Mary (Unintelligible). She lived in Berlin, and she came. (LAUGHTER) She came from Berlin, down to my house. That’s where the teacher boarded. And, um, she came with her dad on a home car thing, on the railroad track.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: You know home cars?
INTERVIEWER: …pump up and down.
DOROTHY: Yes. And, um, she rode on that, and I rode on it many times. (I’d decide to) go home with her on weekends, and spend the weekend in Berlin, and I’d ride on (unintelligible). Sometimes, I would help to push it along, you know. And, um, that was fun. She taught me, Miss Mary taught me, I guess, four year—three years. And then she went into nursing. She became a nurse in, um, Philadelphia hospital because it paid more money. And my second teacher was a (unintelligible) from Snow Hill. And she, like many teachers in that day and time, just graduated from high school in May and took a two-week course in the summertime at the build—in the building in Ocean City. It’s called Town Hall, which later, became a schoolhouse. I ch—I graduated from, in that, in that building. And, I taught in that building. Um, and when I went, I went to school…I guess, I’ve always been a, a book-aholic. Is that a new word? (LAUGHTER)
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: I, I have always loved books. I have always read books. And, um, I didn’t read when I went to school. That was unheard of. But, um, I soon learned to read and I read all the books they had. Because, then, it was, um, it wasn’t “Jack and Jane”. It was “Dickey (Day)”, I think. “Dickey (Day) and the School”—no.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: That was before your time. Anyway. (LAUGHTER) I read Dickey (Day), and I read it over and over. No, I remember my first was an old black and white Ginn, G. I. N. N., Company publication. And it was three lines under a black and white picture of a mother holding a baby. And, I had to learn to spell words “baby” and “Mama” and “love”.
INTERVIEWER: Aww.
DOROTHY: Before I could read the page underneath the picture. And, um, I read all the books they had, in, uh, in that school. And, so, they put me up in another grade in order to have a book for me. And that’s why I’ve graduated young. That’s why I began teaching when I was seventeen, and, it was. And then, my birthday come in the fall, maybe.
INTERVIEWER: Well, tell, tell me what, what grades did you (unintelligible). How many years of school?
DOROTHY: Well, in those days, there were only eleven years of school. Um, high school was just four years—eight, nine, ten and eleven. And then, we graduated. And, um.
INTERVIEWER: Then, you went to teacher’s college?
DOROTHY: Then, I went to teacher’s college in Towson, two years. And then, because, um, because I went, I had to, I couldn’t get Jack to marry me. And I wanted to go love the Leper’s kids in Africa. And I met a missionary in, um, Hood—at Hood College, at a young people’s conference one year. And she talked me into coming to Africa. And she thought I was going to teach her children, the American missionary’s children. And, I wasn’t really. I was going to teach the Leper’s kids. Because, you know, a leper mom and dad can marry and have children, and their children are clean. They are, but, they’re taken away from their parents. They are not allowed to live with them. So, I was going to Africa to, uh, love the Leper’s kids. And, um, but then, Jack married me. So, I didn’t get to Africa. I had my own children, instead. (LAUGHTER)
INTERVIEWER: How many children did you have?
DOROTHY: I ha—well, I had, I have two. I had three. The first one was not, was born dead. And, um, I had Mary Ellen, who lives in, um, Clifton Park, New York State, up above Albany. She has six children.
INTERVIEWER: Huh!
DOROTHY: Oh, when you marry a Catholic! (LAUGHTER) And, an army person, too! You’re bound to have a bunch of kids! So, she had six children. But, you know what she did? She, all her kids went to college. The last one is in college right now. Dave? The one you (ate on his plate). And, um, she went back to college. She had two years of college. She met Mike and married him. And, immediately, began to have the family and travel, because they were military. And she went everywhere. In fact, they were in Stuttgart in Germany when I went over there for her birthday one June. And, um, um, Mike was finishing his, um, military tour of duty at West Point, and his next assignment was to be in Vietnam. And, he didn’t want to go to Vietnam. He said, well, he just wanted no part of Vietnam. He, he didn’t think that this was a war we were in to win it. He didn’t think that was a war we should be in at all. And he went to his, um, Superintendent at West Point and explained his situation, and the Superintendent said, “You’re a Major and if you want a promotion, this is the only war we’ve got. So, if you want a promotion, you’ll go.” And, Mike said, “I don’t want one that badly.” So, he came out of the military. And he’s with the telephone company.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. Tell, tell us about your early years (unintelligible).
DOROTHY: Well, (LAUGHTER) my early years were, they were delightful! They were fun! They, I remember the first day of school.
INTERVIEWER: What grade did you teach?
DOROTHY: Second grade.
INTERVIEWER: In what school?
DOROTHY: In Ocean City Elementary School. At the Bamboo Inn! Now, The Bamboo Inn is now a golf course. Huh! That’s part of the change that comes about in Ocean City. Um, at first, I had forty-some children. Second graders. I thought they were all boys and they all had brown eyes. And, I spoke to every man on the street that I saw, after that, because he might have been the father of one of my kids. I didn’t know it! (LAUGHTER) And, so, um. Um, we had a lot of fun. I don’t know how many years I taught in the Bamboo Inn because they shifted me around. The School Board. You see, in the beginning, when I first began to go to school, and the teachers boarded here, and we went to the, um, country school with a potbelly stove in the middle of the room, the one room, you know. Um, the school boards didn’t really operate as school boards. They didn’t have authority, or if they had it, they didn’t use it. Somehow, or another, the, the direction for each isolated school was, came down from the Trustees. I remember, um, Irma Jester taught in, um, she taught in this country school down here. I used to meet her when she walked up from where she boarded, and I walked to High School. Um, we used to meet along the road.
INTERVIEWER: Who paid the teacher’s salaries?
DOROTHY: The School Board.
INTERVIEWER: The School Board. (Unintelligible) country-wide?
DOROTHY: Yes. They were country-wide. And they were always functioning as a school board, as an organization. There was a, uh, Miss Lucy Pilchard, Miss Lucy Stagg, her name was then, was the attendance officer. And, I had a stack of cards I’d kept, addressed to her, all the time. And, every, at the end of every day, when certain (unintelligible), certain children played hooky, and if they didn’t come to school that day, I sent a card to Miss Lucy and she was there the next day, checking on them. And, and they came back to school. And, attendance officers were, you know. You don’t hear of them anymore. But, in those days, somehow or other, the day-to-day affairs of the school were more or less left to the, uh, Trustees of that school. And, my dad happened to be a Trustee.
INTERVIEWER: How many Trustees were there for each school?
DOROTHY: I think there were three.
INTERVIEWER: How (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: I don’t know. Probably appointed. I don’t remember, ever remember an election. But, they were probably appointed. And, they were probably picked to be appointed because they lived near the school, or some reason. And, my dad was, at all times. He, and then, of course, we lived near the school. I remember one time, Irma Jester tells us in her book, uh, that, um, she came to school and had no children. She had three children out of the whole…and you see, in those days, there was no kindergarten. And there was first grade children, second grade children, third grade children, and so on through seventh grade. There was seven grades of children in that one room. And that one teacher taught them.
INTERVIEWER: How did you manage to, uh, pay attention to them?
DOROTHY: We taught each other.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: We taught each other. If, uh, if the teacher was busy with the fifth grade geography class, uh, then maybe someone needed help with spelling, then they were given that help by another child. And the teacher was, well, she sat on an elevated place like the one-room schoolhouse in Snow Hill. And, the children came up and sat, the children that were having the lesson, came up and sat, um, in a, ah, bench. A “Recitation Bench” it was called. That’s where we had our spelling battles. And, uh, it was fun! And, on cold days, when the, uh…After the teacher had made the fire in the potbelly stove, and the boy had brought the bucket in of water that we drank from all day long, um, she would make a pot of soup, you know. Because we didn’t have cafeterias then. And, uh, it was really fun! It was! We were like a small family there. And, this one time, getting back to Irma Jester, when she had only three children there, it was a circus day in Berlin. And, of course, uh, Ocean City was just a fishing village at that time. Nobody paid much attention to that except during fishing time. And, um, all the county activities, at this end of the county, at least, happened in Berlin. So, this circus came to Berlin, and all the children wanted to go. Well, they had (unintelligible) to go. The families give up their (unintelligible). They took a load…And, um, when Irma got to school, she had three children. So, instead of telephoning, there were no telephones, uh, she wrote a note to my dad, who was down here at my house, and explained the situation to him. And, she said, “What shall I do?” And, he wrote back on the note, “Take those three kids and go to the circus yourself.” (LAUGHTER) So, and that’s what she probably did. I don’t know. And, um, nothing was said about it. Nothing was, um heard of it, since, after that. Because, um, the, the trustee had said do that, and so, she was allowed to do it.
INTERVIEWER: Now, tell, tell me what grades you have taught.
DOROTHY: I’ve taught them all.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Let’s see. Well, I began with second grade. I, I felt that I got second grade simply because my dad was a democrat. My grandfather was the kind of politician that never ran for office, but he always supported the Democratic Party. Even if they ran a monkey, he would support them. And, uh, he kept up with the politics. He read the papers every day. He knew what was going on. And, um, um, a lot of that rubbed off on my dad. So, when, um, when my dad, he used to take me to bull roasts in political things. And, I felt that his influence in the county, being a Democratic influence, had some pressure or weight in my getting my choice, and it was second grade. However, after having second grade in Ocean City, in the Bamboo Inn, then, they began, and when I say “they”, I mean the school board officials, began a checker game with me. Where ever they had an empty slot, and nobody would take it, I got it. So, I found myself in first grade. I found myself teaching science on TV. I found myself, um, in the second grade, because they had had three or four first grade teachers, the poor kids. They had nobody. And I had the reputation of them being sick. That’s why I was on TV. I never got sick. Never missed a day.
INTERVIEWER: When, when was the television episode?
DOROTHY: I think it must have been in the fifties. One, uh. One summer day, um, Paul Cooper was the Superintendent, and if Paul Cooper…He’s dead, now. But, he was a great man. He really was a tremendous person. And Paul Hyde was the Assistant Superintendent. And, one Monday morning, we were living here at home. Uh, my husband was at work, my dad was at work, and, uh, my mom and I and the kids were here. And, uh, we were washing, which was the usual Monday activity for the women of the house, to wash. And, we washed, um, we had graduated from the board, you know. We didn’t wash on the washboard. (LAUGHTER) We didn’t wash with lye soap like, uh, the mothers had had to do. And, the telephone rang. And it was Mr. Hyde from Snow Hill. And, he said, “What are you doing?” And, I said, “I’m doing what all housewives are doing. Washing.” And, so, he said, “Well, turn the washer off. I’m going to talk to you.” So, the up-shot of that was—Paul Cooper had bought, from WBOC, enough afternoon time so that we could have The Delmarva TV School on TV.
INTERVIEWER: Why did you feel that was necessary?
DOROTHY: Why did Paul Hyde feel--?
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Because television teaching was coming to the fore front. Uh, Hagerstown had been doing it for some time. Uh, from, from the time that we did it. When Hage-Hagerstown may still be doing it. I don’t really know. But, uh, it moved in to the Middle West. There were, uh. And that was the beginning of teaching from the air, you know. Stations down on the ground. And, um, so, he’s told, Mr. Hyde told me that’s what he wanted me to come to Snow Hill to talk about.
INTERVIEWER: Now, would this be during the time that now is devoted to soap operas?
DOROTHY: Yes. This is…The only soap opera on then was, uh…Now, what was that called? It was a town…Hum! (Unintelligible) Peyton. It was...Peyton Place was the only soap opera. Because we had just moved from radio where we had John’s Other Wife, and, um, ah, some other things. Maybe the names have continued. I don’t know. But, uh, and my mom listened to those. But, they were on the radio. See, you could listen to that, and, and still make a cake at the same time. You didn’t have to sit and look. And, um, so it seemed to be at the time. And the w- the way to go in education. And Paul Cooper was happy. He had bought an hour’s time, and went and paid for it. But, um, uh, we, we only had two teachers. He had me doing science in the fifth and sixth grades in the beginning. And, um, a music teacher for primary grades. And she was from Seaford. Charlotte Adams.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) watching this? Was this supposed from a classroom?
DOROTHY: Yes. We were. Every classroom got a television set. And, uh, we, we had to make them. We had to make a schedule for the classroom teacher to follow. We had to make a study guide for her to use. And, we had to, um, present that. We, we had in, in our minds, at the same time, always, before events taking place, the present time, the day, the class that day. And, what we were going to be doing next week. What we were going to be doing next month. And what we had to type to send out to the, uh, classrooms that we were observing in. Now, the classes that were involved were, um. (What are you looking at?) The classes that were involved were…See, we were on open circuit, and, uh, anybody could watch.
INTERVIEWER: What does that mean? Open circuit?
DOROTHY: Open circuit means that, um, parents at home…well, they told me, the parents at home told me they watched in order to talk intelligently with their children when they came home from school. Because, I would tell my kids, “Sit at the table tonight at dinner and, um, don’t ask for anybody, while they’re eating their creamed potatoes, don’t ask for the salt. Say, ‘Please pass the NaCl’ and see what your parents pass you. See what they know.” Well, the parents are at home on the open circuit had to watch in order to know what to pass. (LAUGHTER)
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) was that a broadcast for the whole community or was that closed circuit?
DOROTHY: That was not closed circuit. It was, um, um. And anybody that, um, that took a part in it, anybody in the classroom that was involved in it paid so much. In other words, Charlotte’s salary was paid by Seaford School. Seaford’s. My salary was paid by the Worcester County School. And, um, in between the time, when we first began on television, there was just two cameras in the television studio. And one person to tell the cameras where to go, what to zoom in on, and so on. Um, there was a lapse of time between the cameras moving from my class to Charlotte’s class to zoom in. And, so they, Mr. Hyde and Paul Cooper, together, got, uh, Mr. Kuhns from Snow Hill. You know him? Yes, you do. He’s the one that led the fight to preserve the school.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Mr. Bill Kuhns. And, uh, he and, uh, um (unintelligible) the librarian. Ah, they would come and either have Phys. Ed. or story time, or something to fill in the time between our two classes. We, we prepared and planned our classes for about twenty or twenty-five minutes. And then,--
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) the teachers in the classrooms where they had these television sets would not give a science lesson (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: That’s right.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: That’s true.
INTERVIEWER: That was supposed to be a better way to do it than have (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: Well, now, another, now, another thing was (unintelligible). Another thing that spread this whole idea across everybody’s horizon was the Russians had sent Sputnik. And, uh, had put the fear of God in the hearts of everybody. And our kids were falling down in science. They were falling down in math. They were falling, they were just falling down, period. And, uh, and the Russians were ahead of us. So, we had to do something. Now, there were schools. And, there were, uh, counties that could have gotten the open circuit lessons, and did by bootleg. You know, they didn’t pay. Now, they didn’t get from the central office, the papers they were supposed to have and follow. But, somehow or other, they followed it. We knew that, uh, that we did have some, uh, some response from areas that were outside of the, um. But, it was fun! It was, uh, enjoyable! I went to school, went to Salisbury every day. Worked in the senior, uh, Senior High School. And then went over (unintelligible) after lunch, went over to the station – WBOC. And that’s where we had our lesson.
INTERVIEWER: Was it located in the same place?
DOROTHY: Mm Hmm. Yeah.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) Tell me, let’s go back to your childhood again. (LAUGHTER) (Unintelligible) radio and entertainment (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: As a child? Well, I had a bicycle. I rode a bicycle a lot. I’ve, see, as a child, I go back before cars. Before Henry Ford and his Fords appeared a little while. And, um, by way of entertainment, we played marbles. Kids don’t know what marbles are, now. They don’t know what to do (unintelligible) a row of marbles to the front. They know what, uh. I don’t even know, myself, what the, the, the main, the big one is called. Shooter! Yes, the shooter! Uh, well, you were lucky if you got a real good shooter. Um, didn’t matter how you shot it (LAUGHTER), you know. The marble itself is what matters, I guess. And then we rolled hooks. I had a hook from a barrel. Um and like I said, my dad took me to, uh, bull roasts and different political rallies, uh, throughout the county. Ah, he and I went to ballgames. From the very beginning, I knew baseball.
INTERVIEWER: Who played in baseball?
DOROTHY: Ah,
INTERVIEWER: (Unintelligible) talking about (unintelligible).
DOROTHY: Ok. Ok. Ah, at that time, the Catholic Home in Ocean City. And, now, you probably don’t even know. It doesn’t even ring a bell to you at all. But, uh, the Catholic Home was the home to students, Catholic students, in Washington, D. C. And they sent boys down here, young men, down here, every summer, to study. And to work. And to live. And, they formed a team. And, my dad was an umpire a lot of times. And, a lot of, uh, communities had a local team. And, that’s—
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: --who we went to see.
INTERVIEWER: Did you have to pay to watch those games?
DOROTHY: Well, I didn’t. I don’t know whether, uh, um, anybody paid, er. I don’t think so. I think, uh, you might have paid for ice cream and things like that. Don’t you (unintelligible) ice cream? (LAUGHTER) (Unintelligible) paid for, uh, concessions, or whatever. But you went, um, with a candy bar in your pocket, which probably melted. And, uh, enjoy them.
INTERVIEWER: Did you listen to radio? Did you listen to radio (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: No. There weren’t radios in the beginning. Did you want to go back that far? There weren’t any radios. (LAUGHTER) Ok. There weren’t any radios then. Listen! If you have never been to the, the museum, go and look at their telephone book. Now, that’ll tell you something about communication, because the, the telephones, the books, were not as thick as Reader’s Digest. They were half that thick. And, they only had telephones in places of business. My dad had one because he had a country store. But, you didn’t have a phone in your house. Homes didn’t have phones. Hospitals didn’t have phones. Well, they had a main one downstairs, but they didn’t have the, you know, any patient with a telephone. Um, and, and, if you’re going, if you’re going back eighty years, you’re really going back to the pre-radio time.
INTERVIEWER: Does that make you feel old? (LAUGHTER)
DOROTHY: No! It makes me feel great! I, I’m just, uh, uh. It’s a wonderful time to look back and recall and to re- to see and to live again. Like Saturday was Mary Ellen’s birthday. She was forty-seven years old. And I can remember everything that happened that forty-s—forty-seven years ago, I can remember everything that happened. It was great.
INTERVIEWER: Uh, the June twenty-second, 1988 take with Louise Ash interviewing Dorothy Mumford of West Ocean City, Maryland. You were talking on the other side about, uh, your daughter and her birth forty-seven years ago. You were getting ready to expound on that. So, feel free…
DOROTHY: Do you want me to tell what happened? Ok. I had been in the hospital a week because our first baby had been born dead. And, full time, and natural birth, but for some reason, um, and, I didn’t know what labor pains were. And, uh, when I called, either called Jack or, called, um, ah, Butch, his sister, um, to take me to the doctor. When the doctor saw me, um…If I laid on my back, I thought I had pains, and I thought it was time to deliver. But, then, I could turn on my side, and go to sleep, and the pains would go away. So, when the doctor saw me and heard all that, he said, “You stay here.” So, I was there for a week when Mary Ellen was born. So, on the eighteenth of June, that morning, I woke up, and I knew that she was going to be born that day. I just knew it! Um, I was upstairs in the, um, hospital that Doctor Nichol and Ginny, his wife, Alice, his sister, and I think Evelyn, no, maybe Evelyn was, um, with the first time I was there. Anyway, um, (LAUGHTER). This was in Berlin. It, it’s, uh, it’s the, it’s the hospital…It was old Doctor Holland’s home. And, it’s behind, it’s on the street behind the police station. You know where that is? And, um, um. I, I just –
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Yes. And, I just told everybody that the baby was going to be born that day. And, I told everybody it was going to be a boy. I had a boy named but didn’t have a girl named. And, um, because I, I knew that, uh a boy had to carry on his father’s name. I believe, thoroughly, in carrying on family names. Because, I believe in families. And, um, I used to laugh and say, “If I married someone named ‘Hezekiah’, my first boy would be named Hezekiah.” And, I wanted to have a big family, because, um, I just like a lot of people. But, um, it took me twenty years to get Jack and that put me behind, so, I only had the two. So, on…
INTERVIEWER: This house that you were having your baby in, was it a real hospital?
DOROTHY: No. It was a home at one time and had been made into a hospital.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Um, on the floor where I…There were two floors. And on the floor where I was, it was just upstairs. Uh, there must have two other bedrooms. So, they could have three patients at one time. I don’t really remember.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: No. No. Well, now, wait a minute. It might have been.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Yes!
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Uh huh. Ok. Well, anyway, um. The day wore on. And I told everybody. I told my mom, and told my dad. I told, um, I told Jack. I told everybody that the baby was going to come that day. So, Jack was in Salisbury, working with the Eastern Shore Public Service. And, um, he came home about, he got in Berlin about, um, 10:30, maybe 10:00. And, um, Doctor Nichol met him and said, “Your baby’s going to be born to- in the night, sometime, but first, we’ve got to watch Joe Lewis.” There was a prize fight and Joe Lewis had to knock somebody out. I don’t know who it was. And, so, the two men sat downstairs and on the television, they watched. Forty-seven years ago, they had television.
INTERVIEWER: (Unintelligible)
DOROTHY: They did. Um, the two men watched, um, Joe Lewis and the bout, the boxing bout, and he knocked the guy out, whoever he was supposed to. So, then, the two men came upstairs. Well, I don’t know whether Jack came upstairs, or not. The doctor came upstairs. And, um, because of the situation prior to this birth, they didn’t put me under, you know. Uh, they just put, uh, like a catcher mask on my face, and, uh…And Alice pored, uh, ether on it if I breathed deeply. And, uh, then they, they told me to push. And Alice was on one side of me and Ginny was on the other side of me, and Doctor Nichol was down at the foot of the bed. Well, I don’t know what he did down there, but the bed broke down. (LAUGHTER) And, in the middle of everything, here, the bed was one-sided down there, you know. And, uh, the baby then came. And Ginny was so happy with…It was a girl! Ginny was so happy. She said, “I’ve got to have a little girl just that pretty!” And, Ginny was really pretty. She, she, she should have had a little girl. Nine months later, she had Donald. (LAUGHTER) So, Donald was not a little girl. But, anyway, the nurse there was the, um…I forget her name. She was the, uh, uh, cook and a nurse. And, um, she would come in in the morning, and, to bring my breakfast, or see what I wanted for breakfast. And to see what the baby’s name was, because we didn’t have a name for Mary Ellen. Ah, she was just, uh, “Baby Girl.” And, uh, every day, her name changed. So, finally, Ginny came and said, “You’ve got to settle on one name, now, because I have to fill out records.” So, we picked Mary Ellen. Uh, a name for her two maternal grandparents.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Mm hmm. Forty-seven.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Forty-seven years ago.
INTERVIEWER: Tell me what you remember of the first (unintelligible).
DOROTHY: The First World War?
INTERVIEWER: How old were you?
DOROTHY: Well, I was in high school. And, um, I don’t remember much about the…I remember seeing, uh. Our house was right where it is now. And the road was, um, not as wide as it is now. I remember seeing…What were they called? Squadrons of soldiers? Platoons of soldiers come marching. Somebody was leading them and calling out, “Hep! Hep! Hep!” every so often. And, they were in, uh, sort of, uh, of abeyance. They were, they were walking or marching down the street, um, to, um, a tune. Not a drum. There was no machine. No, uh, um, instrument handy. But, I remember that. And, I remember, um, I remember the Red Cross asking for certain, like, bandages. And, I remember my mom and the ladies of the community (unintelligible). But, I don’t remember much about the World War, the First World War. I knew we had it. But, um, ah, it’s, it…The horror of it didn’t touch us, somehow or other. And, my dad escaped that draft because of his, I guess because of his age. Because having us, probably. And, nobody that I ever…now, my, my…the Second World War, my husband escaped that because of his work. And, um, war has never come close to our family. Not really close. Not close enough to hurt.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: Well, the Second…The, the thing I remember about the community of Ocean City is not due to a war. Um, economically, our town bounced back from the storms that had hit it. More than it has…Now, now, during the, during the Second World War, there are people that have, um, have, um, spotted planes. They have gone up the beaches where just the sand dunes were there, you know. And, they’ve hidden undercover, somehow, and spotted planes. And we had German submarines off our shore. And, we’ve had the Coast Guard people have been involved with, um, with spies that have come up on to our shore. And, I remember hearing about those. But, uh, actually, the war, a war, as a war has not hit close to my family in any way.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: The storms. The, well, Ocean City, Ocean City is on Asseteague Island. It’s just a splinter of sand that’s there where it is because the good Lord put it there to protect where I live. (LAUGHTER) And, I thank Him for it! But, um, um, the part that’s Ocean City, the part that hooks up to Delaware, is the part that’s steel-pinned down, and, and everybody thinks it’s safe, but isn’t safe. And, and, it’s…You’re just never safe from that ocean. Ah, who tells the ocean waves where to go back? How far to come and where to go back, and all that, you know? There, you gotta believe in a Creator, a Person, a Spirit, a Mind, a Planner that has bigger things in mind than just (sand dunes) on the beach (LAUGHTER)
INTERVIEWER: Well, tell us about (unintelligible) the storm of 1933 (unintelligible).
DOROTHY: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Were there (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: We’ve had, we’ve had a lot of, um, inlet cut through our beach many times. Ah, we’ve had, um…One tide will wash a weak section of the sand away so that the water can get through. And, we have what we call an inlet. But, then, when the wind changes, and the tide moves in the other direction, that same sand is brought back and put there where it was taken out, and it’s filled up again. And, and this inlet that we’ve got, would be filled up again if the government hadn’t stepped in. And they still dredge it. They still work each summer, or whatever they, whatever part of the year they do it. They dredge and put stones on either side to, uh, hold the inlet, hold the waters back. And they have to.
INTERVIEWER: What do you think of the (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: Well, I just wish Kelly could have seen it.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Um, well, I think it was a dream of his, to build the beaches back, to make them comfortable for the tourists. And, um, he, he had to, he had to know a certain amount of satisfaction that that was in the overall big plans. But, he never lived to see it, and I wish he had. (Unintelligible)
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Yes. Yes. And, you know who built the first jetties? First jetties in Ocean City? Uh, the Harrison family. Now, right now, they are The Harrison Group and they are in Ocean City. But, they came from Berlin. One time, they had the largest fruit orchard in the world here in Worcester County! And Senator Harrison, who started the whole thing, fruit-wise, was the one who started the jetties. And, there was a time when the boardwalk, the boardwalk, where it is today, was so high because of the sand had washed away from underneath it that you could walk under it. Uh, you could drive a horse under it. In fact, my uncle did. Uncle Joe did take his ponies under the boardwalk and put them on the beach. And, you could get a pony ride from one jetty to the next jetty for a quarter.
INTERVIEWER: So, in other words, at that time, (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: Mm hmm. Yes, it was.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: That’s right. And, and when the, when the sand was that low down, uh, there was nothing to keep the water back. And, in the high tide, many, many times, you walked, I walked on the beach, on the boardwalk, and had waves break under the boardwalk and splash up because of the, uh…There was nothing to keep the water back.
INTERVIEWER: As far as storm surges, do you remember any particular (storms at shore) (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: Um, well, I don’t remember the dates of any, but we’ve had lots of them. Um, I never did the waters come…You see, where I am on 707, uh, it hooked in to a part of the road that was called Oyster Shell Road. And, that was the first bridge. Route 50 was never heard of at one time. If you go back far enough, you will…After the Rail Road Bridge, oh, this was, that washed out in ’33. But, the first cars came here in the teens, first war, First World War or before that. And, so, then we had the need for an automobile bridge. And, that hooked up to, I think it must have been Worcester Street in Ocean City. And, that’s where the first bridge went. I can remember when (LAUGHTER)…I remember one storm, um, John (Sackah) was, um, a young kid, and, uh, he and, uh…This is when Ocean City, not a lot of people, but many, many families lived in Ocean City in what was called “floating shanties.” And, they were just what they said. They were shanties that floated on the water. And they floated up to the shore and got stuck in the mud. And, that’s where they stood. No matter what the water did, they stayed stuck on the shore, there. On the bay side of Ocean City. And, um, of course, when the storm came, storms came, the waters went into these shanties and took the furniture out, or whatever. And, um, I was walking down the, um, the end of the bridge, uh, at the crossroads at Worcester and St. Louis Avenue. That crossroad, which is low. And, right there, at the time, was a blacksmith shop. We don’t need a blacksmith shop anymore, so we don’t have one. Nobody knows that it was there. Uh, Miss, um, Miss, um, Josephine Jarvis’ mother had a store, a grocery store there. Captain Powell had a garage near…Up at the next corner, across from where (Carrie) used to live. And, um, um, John (Sackah) was paddling around on a refrigerator that had washed out of somebody’s shanty. And, he was paddling with an old broom that he had found. And when he paddled over to me…Now this old refrigerator probably was just a refrigerator. It didn’t have a freezer section. And, um, ah, when he paddled near me, I was walking in the water. Wadding. It has probably had water up to my knees. Ah he said, “Are you hungry?” And he called me Miss Gray, because I was Dot Gray before I was Dot Mumford. And, um, I said, “Yes. What do you got to eat?” And he inched himself over on the refrigerator and opened the door and took out a slice of watermelon and handed it to me. And, I had a piece of watermelon that I could have eaten.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember how old you were at that time?
DOROTHY: I was teaching. I was, um, I was in my twenties.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Uh huh.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Yes. Mm hmm.
INTERVIEWER: Do you remember Prohibition (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: Yes. I remember Prohibition.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: (LAUGHTER) (unintelligible) spirits. (LAUGHTER)
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Ok. I, I, I can remember. Yes. Um, um…
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Prohibition never worked. And, uh, it took a time for our Politicians to find out that it couldn’t work. Because, man, let’s face it, man and his ability to, um, maneuver things, can maneuver any kind of law, or anything he wants to maneuver for his own gain, and he’ll do it. That’s, I guess (unintelligible) in us. I don’t know. The apple that, um, that something did it, anyway. It’s true. But, I remember, I remember the days of bootleggers. I remember, uh, um, people…Well, let me see. I remember when people had stills in the woods, somewhere. You know, hidden?
INTERVIEWER: Do you know of (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: I could, yes. But, it’s better not to. No. And, and I, I remember when the Big Haul was made at, um, holiday time, Christmastime. And, certain well-known people in town were kept in surveillance, or under cover, somehow or other, because of their being involved in loading or unloading of this bunch of liquor.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) Big Haul (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Yeah. You didn’t know about that? No. It was before your time! (LAUGHTER) Um, the, the thing I remember about it was that that Christmas, this friend of mine gave me a five-year diary. And, that’s the first thing I wrote in my diary, that such-and-such and so-and-so had been apprehended by the…
INTERVIEWER: Federal? (Unintelligible)
DOROTHY: …Federal government. And, were spending time. They were fed. They were taken down the street of Ocean City to a restaurant and were fed. And, um, so much time had to be used because of their involvement in this sort of thing. And, it all came about because of Prohibition, I guess.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) say a “Big Haul,” (unintelligible) arrested a lot of people…
DOROTHY: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: Everyday?
DOROTHY: Yes.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: At night. It, it happened at nighttime. And, and it happened, it was a planned thing. But, something happened to the plans and it didn’t go off, didn’t go on as they planned it.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) (people) involved in (unintelligible) would otherwise be considered (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: Well, to, to be…Now, wait a minute!
INTERVIEWER: I don’t want you to name any names.
DOROTHY: I’m not going to name any names. But, to, um, to, to be in the (unintelligible) that a person, a man, would allow himself, and I speak, I say man, because, generally, the women were, you know, the “yes men.” Um, for a man to allow himself to indulge in that kind of economy, put him on a social level (unintelligible). So, there may be somebody on a higher level that was backing him, or giving him money, or needed to be told on, but wasn’t. That, uh, that could have happened. But, I don’t really know of anyone.
INTERVIEWER: And, how did the average person (unintelligible)? In other words, (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: No. I don’t think to legalize drugs is going to answer the problem. I don’t think.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Because, their, that is, is simply putting a band aid on the band, on the wound.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: The wound is what it does to a person. And, and you’re just putting a band aid on instead of curing it. The way to cure it is to remove the desire for it.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Well, I have one way of removing the desire for anything that is anti-church. And, and, and, I think, I think if more people, I think if more families were together in, as a family, and spend time together as a family…We have, we have people, we have people right now…I can, I could name you people right this minute who, uh, think nothing of supper together as a family. They don’t ever have it. Ah, the children come and go. They eat whenever they get hungry. They eat trash food or junk food, or whatever you call it. And, as a family, they know no limitation, no restriction, no obedience, no respect. There’s no quality to the work they were asked to do. Um, we’ve just fallen down. And, I think, um, I think to legalize something is not the answer to the difficulty.
INTERVIEWER: Ok. As far as the family goes, what do you think (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: (LAUGHTER) You won’t like this!
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Yes. Women working out of the family. I’m old-fashioned—
INTERVIEWER: But, yet, you worked (unintelligible).
DOROTHY: But, my kids were further along in school. I took a long “coffee break.” But, uh, until my kids were where they ought to be—
INTERVIEWER: And, where was that?
DOROTHY: Uh, ahead of me. When, when, um. Paul Cooper always asked me to go back to teaching because I was on the substitute list. And, being on the substitute list is murder. Really! That is terrible! Um, I don’t know what it is today, but, back in those days…For a teacher, a person who has been a teacher, to spend six hours a day reading a Reader’s Digest, to get caught up on all her hometown reading, uh, is stupid! Silly! And, it’s a loss to that many children because they have spent that day being busy. Doing busy work. And, so, that’s half the teachers. And, so, as a substitute, it was difficult. And, every spring, Paul Cooper would say to me, “Dot, come back to teach.” And, I’d say, “No. I don’t want to. I want to be home. I’m having too much fun and I want to be home.” Mary Ellen was, um, ah, she was three and a half years older than Jack, so he was about…She was sixth grade when I went back. He was second grade. And when I went back, I said, I said to Paul Cooper when he kept asking me…This was before we paid income tax. Teachers didn’t pay income tax back in those days. Uh, this was before, um Social Security. Teachers didn’t have Social Security.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Or, retirement. Ah, this…See, I go back a long way. And, um, Paul Cooper…I said, “Paul, you, you can, you can…”or “Mr. Cooper” or “Dr. Cooper.” I didn’t call him “Paul.” Uh, “…If you ever have a vacancy in Ocean City, I’ll take it. If it’s in high, if it’s in elementary school, I’ll take it. No matter which grade it is, I’ll take it.” And, we didn’t have kindergarten even then. And, um, so, not long after that, they had an opening in the fifth grade. And, um, I said I’ll, I’ll take it, but I’ll take it on one guarantee from you…That I never teach my son. He was only second grade, or maybe third grade then. And, I said he’s not the kind…Now, I could teach Mary Ellen. She could be in my class, and I could…But to teach Jack was a different kettle of fish. And, I just couldn’t do it. Uh, because, I had to substitute a time or two in his class, and I would deliberately ask other children in the class to point out to me where the books were that they were using, or where thing were that I needed to use. I didn’t ask him, and he would get me home and rake me over the coals. He’d say, “I’m your, I’m your son! I’m supposed to do this for you!” And, he had a valid reason. We had brought him up that way, but at school, it didn’t work. So, I said, “Paul Cooper, whenever you have an opening that’s not where he’s going to be, I’ll take it.” So, Paul said ok. So, so when Jack came, um, to fifth grade, where I was, uh, I didn’t get his section. We had (unintelligible) classes then, and I got the other section. I never had him, except as a substitute.
INTERVIEWER: Talk about (unintelligible).
DOROTHY: I’d like to see the curriculum today go back to teaching Maryland History to Marylanders, geography as it…And geography was one of my worst subjects in school. I flunked it…Um, history. Of course, history is always good. Uh, uh, big thing with me because I like history. Well, I think, I like books, and I love, I love, I like the historical aspect of books. That’s the only thing I, I don’t know how. In fact, I told Doctor (Gabuffo) I couldn’t teach now. I wouldn’t even attempt it.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Because, um, Louise, I used to plan my lessons, and I had them all marked down, what I was planning to do. But, if I woke up and it was a raining day, and going in to school, I walked in, stepped on, or close to stepping on an earthworm, I had a science lesson on earthworms that day. I didn’t have my lesson. Maybe I had. Maybe I was doing, ah, um, well, the weather. Maybe I was doing…Well, that would fit in alright with the rain and earthworms. Maybe I was doing magic, or some other phase of science. But, I would eliminate that from my schedule and would teach earthworms. We’d have a big time with earthworms, earthworms. Maybe my dad’s, uh, bees would swarm and he’d call school and say, “Come on out and watch me get this swarm of bees back into the hive.” And, we’d do that. Um, I, I just…Teachers nowadays have their, too schedulized. They have too much paperwork to do. There’s too much rush, rush, rush. There isn’t time to enjoy things, to enjoy life. Nobody has time to smell the rose.
INTERVIEWER: Do you think the class size (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: I don’t think that makes a difference. I don’t think that makes a difference. No.
INTERVIEWER: How about if one teacher (unintelligible) class?
DOROTHY: I’d love it!
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Oh, I, I’d, I’d think, I’d think it’s cruel to little kids, to make them switch classes. Oh, I think that’s cruel. So, whoever planned that, and I know it’s being tried, but, whoever’s behind it is going to live to regret it. Because the children are going to rare up. When they get older, and they’re going to…They’re not going to want it for their kids, I don’t think. It’s, it’s, well, now, not only does a child wonder who his mother is, not only does a child wonder who in the world his father might be, but, he now doesn’t know who his teacher is! A first grade kid, or a kindergartener! I don’t know what they do in kindergarten or not. But, a first grade kid doesn’t know who his real teacher is. Maybe he doesn’t have any lessons in his homeroom that whole day. It’s cruel! It’s cruel! It’s wrong!
INTERVIEWER: So, you would not be a teacher today?
DOROTHY: No. I (unintelligible). Well, we’re all teachers. I’ll never, I’ll never be anything but a teacher and neither would you.
INTERVIEWER: If you were born today, (unintelligible) would you be a teacher again? (Unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Ah, being a teacher, everybody is a teacher. Everybody’s a teacher and a learner. Um, so, you can’t get out. I may be a chemist, but, I’m still a teacher. Um, somehow or other, we’re…Somewhere on my pocketbook, I’ve got a button that says, “I make a difference.” You make a difference. And, that’s being a teacher. That’s being a learner. Ah, if I were born today, if I had the choice…Well, let’s move up from being born to graduating. If I were a graduate, uh, I would go in to Architecture. No. I mean, um, um, not Architecture. I would go in to digging in the Old World. The cities that have been covered up.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible) Archeologist.
DOROTHY: Archeologist. That’s what I would go in to.
INTERVIEWER: Why?
DOROTHY: Because, I think that’s interesting. I think that’s, uh, that’s where I would learn a lot. Um, I’d get, um…Do you get the yellow magazine?
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: (unintelligible). You get it at the library?
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: Ok.
INTERVIEWER: Do you know that there’s a, a joke around about (unintelligible) knocked out of its orbit because of all the National Geographic magazines stored in people’s basements (unintelligible).
DOROTHY: (LAUGHTER) No! That’s good! That’s great! Well, you know what’s stored in my attic? My Reader’s Digest and, and not the National Geographics.
INTERVIEWER: (unintelligible)
DOROTHY: No. Um, but in the last Reader’s, in the last National Geographic that I got, they have uncovered recently, a whole village, a whole town, in Greece, that was destroyed by an earthquake. And, they uncovered it! They’re digging down, and, you know…Uh, I, I think that would be interesting. It would mean travel, a great deal of travel. I don’t particularly like traveling. But, it would mean, um, finding out the past, because, only as we understand the past, can we, hopefully, conquer the future. And, how else, what else is there to do? Um…
INTERVIEWER: When you say, “conquer the future,” (unintelligible)?
DOROTHY: No. Not necessarily. Um, be on top of it. Be in control. Thank the Lord He’s in control! But, um, sometimes, you and I both think He’s a little bit slow. (LAUGHTER) Ah, we would have things happen faster than, uh…but, uh, Ecclesiastes says it…
End of Interview